Aggression into Passive Limpers

[sirlurkalot]

My first hand posted, so please cut me some newbie slack.

Saturday afternoon 10/20 @ Borg. Table is loose and very passive, a real limp-fest.
Five limp including villain UTG+1, an unknown young player recently arrived from must-move, SB completes, I check BB w/Q6o. ($70 – 7 players)
Flop 5-7-8 rainbow, I check, hoping to c/r a bet and numerous calls, but it’s checked all around.
Turn Q no flush draw. SB checks, Hero ???

Thanks in advance; regular posters on this board have helped me immensely!

[threeonefour]

bet. really you can't do much wrong. you have top pair and a good draw, if you get raised you can easily call. You are likely in the lead right now. not much else to say really.

this hand would be more interesting if you had to call two cold on the turn or something.

i wouldn't CR the flop btw. you want multiway action, however if you get multiway action it makes it much more likely you are sharing your 6 with someone else, so you really aren't build a lot of equity for yourself by raising.

[sirlurkalot]

Thanks for the response. This table was playing loose. I thought I was probably ahead, w/good draw. Possibly out-kicked to a better Q.
On the turn, I checked, villain bet. 3 callers, then I c/r. Villain calls, others all fold.
River 2. I bet, villain raises. I ???
Well, I made the crying call(getting >10:1) thinking I'm probably beat by AQ, , hoping he had 88-JJ or is bluffing a busted draw,etc. Instead he turns over AA, and I scratch my head...
Fortunately, that was about the only hand that I lost at showdown in 6 hours.

[threeonefour]

based on your desire to check raise both the flop and the turn of this hand i think you might be a little too in love with check raising in general. something to think about...

[bboy_]

the turn is an easy bet, however since you checked your hand really isn't strong enough to check/raise over the field. just because you have TP and a draw does not mean you are strong yet.

this is misplayed a lot when hero is holding As5s lets say raises gets 3 bet, calls, flops an ace and goes into check/call mode, but then wee the turn brings up two spades and now hero decides to raise just because of the added draw. it looks good but in reality really wrong to raise so just call.

[ProfessorBen]

You flop an OESD which means you want to put bets in the pot, but you want as many people as possible to put in bets with you to increase your relative equity. Ideally, you'd love it if the player after you bet, the whole field called, you check raised the field and then landed your straight on the turn.

With so many people left behind you to act, I don't hate an attempted check raise, but there are a few reasons a bet is better.

One simple rule of the thumb to keep in mind is that if there's no preflop raiser, there's no guarantee that you can get a check raise in.
Additionally, there is no guarantee that you can get a favorable check raise. If someone bets in late position, you will be forced to call because a raise will push players out when you want them in with you in the pot. This situation is exacerbated because early position players will be more likely to check even with a pair while late position players will be more likely to bet light after watching the field check.

As played, bet/call the turn.

[sirlurkalot]

Thanks, makes sense.
What do you think of villain's slowplaying the AA both preflop and on the flop? I really discounted any chance of him having kings or aces. Even more so when he didn't 3bet the turn.
Would you recommend I make the crying call on the end as played, or save a bet for another hand? I figured that in this loose game, I'm good at least 20% of the time.

[threeonefour]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, makes sense.
What do you think of villain's slowplaying the AA both preflop and on the flop? I really discounted any chance of him having kings or aces. Even more so when he didn't 3bet the turn.
Would you recommend I make the crying call on the end as played, or save a bet for another hand? I figured that in this loose game, I'm good at least 20% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]The guy with AA is an absolute idiot, his play has no merit. nobody on this board will disagree with me. don't think he outplayed you just because you were surprised by what he flipped over.

[cgrohman]

Bet and play it from there. I'd be more inclined to just check call the flop because its a one card draw.

[ProfessorBen]

Check raising the turn was a mistake. First, again there is no guarantee that the turn will be bet and having it checked through isn't good.

Next, it puts us in this terrible spot where 4 bets can go in on the big streets. If he has a big hand here, you're getting 3-bet on the turn and that's terrible as you have to call with your outs and pay a 4th bet to see showdown. If you had just bet the turn, you could have simply called the raise and a single bet on a blank river to see showdown, which doesn't put you in terrible shape. Once the 4th bet goes in on the big streets, you're likely in bad shape, but probably have to call due to the fishy line/pot size.

The most important point here is that you should only check-raise when you are sure that the bet will come from a favorable position.