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#42
08-28-2007, 05:20 AM
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Re: *ATTN Winstar Players*
[ QUOTE ]
One dealer failed to recognize that 65 beats 95 on a JJ652 board. She insisted on pushing the pot to 95 and even called the floor when we all insisted that a pair of 6s beats a pair of 5s. I am not making this up. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] So which dealer was it? I notice you seem to make a lot of claims but seemed reticent to answer specific questions. [/ QUOTE ] I didn't post that. Someone else did. Do you observe this keenly when you're in the box? [ QUOTE ] TxRedMan will probably find something else to complain about instead of answering the question that has been posed several times now. [/ QUOTE ] I've answered every question you've "posed". And if you weren't so ignorant and unable to see past your own nose, I'd ask you to offer a solution to the players who feel the room sucks, instead of stirring the pot and trying to be an irritation in the forum. [ QUOTE ] We all have our names on our gaming cards handing on our chests. A good player like yourself is surely alert enough to get the name of a dealer who cannot read a hand, aren't you? [/ QUOTE ] When a dealer misreads a hand at showdown, I correct him/her. Cards speak. And when I'm the first one to correct the dealer and then other players confirm what I've said, we move on. And I've probably seen 50 different dealers in the past ten days, so, no, I dont remember their names. [ QUOTE ] I mean since this was so blatant, you did call the floor so they could find a competent dealer, didn't you? [/ QUOTE ] Why call an incompetent floor to remove an incompetent dealer and replace him with another? Seems redundant and an exercise in futility, just like this back and forth with a narrow minded elitist dealer who can't stand the fact that the Winstar poker room is not the end all be all of poker, and that not just myself but many others here think your room is a joke, and that in comparison to other rooms it's a rip off. I'm through talking to you. I've said my piece and I feel that many are in agreement with me. Furthermore, I'd reccomend you stay out of this thread because this morning I sent a letter to the poker room and to the casino and it had this post linked in both, and I doubt your management would be happy with you saying the things you said in this forum, furthering the notions that I've proposed are standard procedures in your poker room. I would like for you to answer two questions though, I'd like it very much if you would answer me this; Is it right for me to be paying for a bad beat jackpot I cant qualify for? I'm playing HU PLO and they're taking $1/hand, but we dont qualify for it. Is that right, in your opinion? And finally, how do you justify charging a five man table $3 per pot, and charging the same rake at a headsup table? (And what kind of dense and stubborn idiot lets a game break because the players refused to put $40 an hour into a bad beat jackpot they couldn't hit, a game that broke and left the table empty, too) Answer those two questions. You'll have to either agree with me or look like an idiot trying to defend it. I'm calling the poker room tomorrow and i'm going to speak with someone at length about my issues with them, and I'm going to demonstrate my point with greater clarity by referring to the attitude of one of their supposed dealers in the most respected poker forum around. /end thread 
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#43
08-28-2007, 10:24 AM
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Re: *ATTN Winstar Players*
A description of the dealer would suffice.
As for PLO not qualifying, there is a bad beat jackpot just for Omaha. It's only $2500 (flat, doesn't increase) and is quad... 10s beat? I dunno, I don't worry about that stuff.
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#44
08-28-2007, 01:28 PM
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Re: *ATTN Winstar Players*
I know the dealer's name but I won't be posting it here. That would serve no purpose. If I wanted you to know who it was I would have included it in my original post. Dealer-Guy...which dealer are you? Stop being so defensive and dense.
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#45
08-28-2007, 01:29 PM
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Re: *ATTN Winstar Players*
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm 99% sure that it doesn't cost money to get a players card. I've just never gotten one because it doesn't seem to offer any real advantage to me. No casino pays out the full jackpot, I've read other threads on here that say as much - it's a buffer for the casino to ride the float. As for complaining about the rake, I have to find it funny that a 5/10 PLO player is complaining about it, but then I play 4/8 limit and 5/10 O8. You sound a lot like a guy I was talking to the other day who was saying he could bring a 20/40 game to the room but he would want the rake dropped to $4 instead of $5. Uh, ok... [/ QUOTE ] I never spoke to you about a 20/40 game. If I ever have enough clout in Texas to get a game together on a regular basis, I'll open my own room or take the game to a place that respects the players. You couldn't pay me to send players up to that bleeding [censored] hole. When Texas legalizes poker, I have every intention of opening a room that gives poker players a fair shake. As a business owner and a poker player, I'm apphauled at the practices in some poker rooms, and the utter lack of common sense and intelligence displayed in some rooms, Winstar especially. It's almost as if some junior college MBA wannabe is running that room, someone with no poker experience, and no business sense. If they legalize poker in Texas, I promise you Winstar's poker room will be a ghost town. But I really want you to understand the following point , please read it carefully and really try and think about what i'm saying, because it applies to you and everyone else, and it has a huge impact on your hobby or career as a poker player. When I first started playing, I didn't care what the rake was. I was excited to drag a pot, and I didn't care about the rake, and I used to tip $5 per pot. I was a losing player at that time. Then I found twoplustwo, I got chastised in the forums, and I started to analyze my game and grow as a player. Slowly I started to realize lots of things. One of them was that I played a lot of poker, and I paid a lot of rake. I realized at that point I had played live poker for a year, and that I had likely paid $30,000 in rake alone, combined with an estimated $15,000 in tips. I realized that if I didn't have to pay the rake, I would have been a winning player that year. Then I started comparing the rake in my underground Dallas game to the same game in different places. I realized that in the same game online, I would have only paid about $10,000 in rake, plus I wouldn't have tipped a dealer, making me a winner for the year. The same game in Las Vegas or Los Angeles would have cost me about $15,000 in rake. So if I had been playing somewhere besides Dallas, I would have been a small loser, and if I had been playing online I would have been a decent winner. At that point I also realized I'll be playing poker for as long as I have the ability to do so, and that I'll be paying rake as long as I do. So where I give my action is dependent upon the competition and the rake. Just to give you an idea of how abusrd your comment about a 5/10 PLO player complaining about rake is- if I gave my action for the next ten years to Winstar at their current rake, the difference in dollars would be roughly $150,000 in comparison to the legal card rooms elsewhere in the country. Just because you might see me dragging a $5000 pot doesn't mean I'm playing at stakes that are impervious to the rake. That's what recreational players dont understand. It's one game, and it never stops, right? We've all heard that before. Stop thinking about the $150 pot you just dragged in your $4-$8 game, and start thinking about the thousands of pots you'll drag over your tenure as a player, and think about the long term effect of what that extra rake does to your bankroll. I can pay $12 per hour at The Wynn and earn $1.50 per hour in food comps, and I can assure you that Steve Wynn isn't running a poker room that's losing money. He makes money off that room. Same goes for the Bellagio. They've got the biggest market in Las Vegas, they make money, and they dont rip off the players like Winstar does. So why does some greedy and poorly run poker room in Oklahoma get away with charging double, triple, sometimes more than quadruple the rake for the same games while simultaneously being cheap and greedy with a simple food comp? You have a voice, and you have a choice. If you want to play at Winstar I have no problem with it, but for the sake of the poker community, please consider forming an opinion on the rake they're raking and compare it to other casinos, and then write a letter. I wrote a letter this morning. For me, I'd rather play online or spend more time in Las Vegas than pony up to the table feeling like some sucker giving action to someone who might as well be laughing in my face. -Tex [/ QUOTE ] Tex, I concur completely with your point...well said. Are the opponents at Winstar weak enough to warrant paying the exorbiant rake? ie weak opponents + huge rake > strong opponents + small rake? Even if it is positive ev, is it positive enough to offset the negative ev of encouraging greedy poker managers' "kill the golden goose" rape of the current poker boom with tacit approval of same by my attendance thereto? Will the players be left in the untenable position of strong opponents + huge juice when the fish go broke primarily to said juice? I'm in a quandry. Should I boycott for the future of a playable game or play in a currently +ev poker game to make money for the apparently inevitable forced retirement? I think that the same point could be made about your location...WSOP. Edit: I think that it is a matter of degree, not of kind as to Winstar and WSOP. I remain so confused. gg
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#47
08-28-2007, 04:21 PM
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Re: *ATTN Winstar Players*
Once Winstar changed their system and required a players card to get a comp, I got a players card. It was free.
I've played 5/10 NLHE heads up, and although I don't know if it was official or unofficial, several dealers did not take any money for the BBJ, and what's more, at the table next to me, a short handed 10/20 NLHE game, they were not taking any rake unless there was a flop -- even if there was more than one raise preflop. They do seem to hire dealers with little or no training and/or experience and let them learn on the job. One floor man has two daughters that deal, one of them is good, one of them is bad. After dealing for 2 years, the bad one still seems to expose cards every down, and is basically not smart enough to read an omaha/8 board at show down. So yeah, there is definite room for improvement on this front. But it is in the middle of nowhere, so I try to cut them some slack. Over all, the staff and the facilities have improved, slowly but surely, from the day the opened until now. The structure of the tourneys they offer have gotten better. It is not perfect, but they appear to be ironing out the wrinkles as they encounter them. So by all means, if you are in Las Vegas every other week, boycott Winstar and write them a nasty letter to let them know how badly they are flagging behind their Vegas counterparts. But for everyone else who lives within an hour or two of Winstar, and enjoys the time they spend there, I really don't think your message is going to carry any weight. Also, thanks for letting us know about your jet set lifestyle and the extremely high stakes poker you enjoy playing, in which you pay all the rake. Without including those salient details, we might just think you were some shmoe who got stiffed 50 cents by a waitress the first time he went to Winstar, then misunderstood a floorman and thought a players card cost $6 on his second trip to Winstar, and decided based on those two incidents alone to bad mouth the place mercilessly. Could you post some pictures of your muscles? Thanks.
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#48
08-28-2007, 07:22 PM
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Re: *ATTN Winstar Players*
[ QUOTE ]
Also, thanks for letting us know about your jet set lifestyle and the extremely high stakes poker you enjoy playing, in which you pay all the rake. Without including those salient details, we might just think you were some shmoe who got stiffed 50 cents by a waitress the first time he went to Winstar, then misunderstood a floorman and thought a players card cost $6 on his second trip to Winstar, and decided based on those two incidents alone to bad mouth the place mercilessly. Could you post some pictures of your muscles? Thanks. [/ QUOTE ] *Sigh* Why does everyone insist on being the biggest douchebag they can possibly be? This is entirely unnecessary, Tex's post was one of the best ones I have read and like I said before, it basically stated everything I inherently thought about the room, yet had never fleshed out in writing. As far as what you wrote about the "no flop no drop"..you are right...I don't know if it was me you saw or someone else, but about 4 weeks ago I was playing HU 10/20NL and they did not rake preflop and did not drop the dollar. They absolutely refused to do the same last weekend. It irritates me to no end that they simply don't understand that if they accomodate a HU and 3 handed game, it will eventually yield a full table of a game they have trouble making, which has been my experience the last 5-6 times I have played HU 10/20 or 10/25NL there.
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#49
08-28-2007, 07:33 PM
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Re: *ATTN Winstar Players*
TxRedMan has not answered all the questions I asked him, he seems confused by the use of the word "posed" so I will try to speak in simpler terms.
I asked why he would pay the time charge for himself and another player and he said would (could?) not explain it. His posts are full of misleading statements, falsehoods and inaccuracies. He claims he can play in Dallas for the same rake but he didn't answer that question either. The question was where could he play for that rake? According to him, he only plays at a high class room that he won't name or introduce people to because he has to know them well enough first. How convenient. He wants me to stay out of this thread but then asks me questions. If I don't answer them, I prove he's right, if I do answer them, I will prove myself to be an idiot. (According to him) Finally, his response is to "report" me to the casino. Wow, so much for freedom of speech, as long as it doesn't interfere with TxRedMan's agenda. Considering he has vowed to never return to WinStar, why does it bother him so? I'll be interested to see if anything is said when I go into work tonight. He said  in part)Quote: I'm through talking to you. I've said my piece and I feel that many are in agreement with me. Furthermore, I'd reccomend you stay out of this thread because this morning I sent a letter to the poker room and to the casino and it had this post linked in both, and I doubt your management would be happy with you saying the things you said in this forum, furthering the notions that I've proposed are standard procedures in your poker room. I would like for you to answer two questions though, I'd like it very much if you would answer me this; Is it right for me to be paying for a bad beat jackpot I cant qualify for? I'm playing HU PLO and they're taking $1/hand, but we dont qualify for it. Is that right, in your opinion? And finally, how do you justify charging a five man table $3 per pot, and charging the same rake at a headsup table? (And what kind of dense and stubborn idiot lets a game break because the players refused to put $40 an hour into a bad beat jackpot they couldn't hit, a game that broke and left the table empty, too) Answer those two questions. You'll have to either agree with me or look like an idiot trying to defend it. I choose option 3, the truth. (annoying I'm sure but it usually is to people like you) First the "BBJ" $1 drop. The $1 that comes out pre deal is not for the BBJ, it is for all player promotions. Splash pots, high hands, cracked aces, etc. The money is actually player money and is returned to players thru these promotions. If you do not believe me, ask about this when you call to tell someone how to run their business. Get your facts straight before having a fit over something like this. Now, as to the rake and the table breaking. You knew what the rake was before you sat down, didn't you? I mean you asked what the rake would be on head up play, right? So after you asked and they told you, you started to play, right? Anyway, the room is designed to make a profit. To pay dealers, floor people, chip runners, bankers and others their hourly wages plus earn money for Chickasaw Enterprises. As a self proclaimed business owner, surely you understand the idea of making a profit, or do you? Should they let you play for free just because you KNOW so much more than they do? We never use a time charge, should we change our policy just to make you happy? I must really get your blood boiling for you to TRY and rat me out to get me off your back. Threatening my job, such a mature and appropriate response. Your father did a damn good job of making a man out of you. I'm glad you are through discussing this with me that means I win. Regardless, you lost as soon as you decided to threaten me and my job.
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