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#21
10-29-2007, 12:50 AM
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Re: What to do when a player goes south?
[ QUOTE ]
Why does anyone in this thread think it's ok to go south for any amount? The floor should be alerted the moment you you see someone take chips off the table. [/ QUOTE ] There are many times where you should let this slide. If some fish wants to protect 50 bucks for dinner with his wife and keep playing with 500, why would I create a stink? If I do whats likely to happen is that he's just going to leave with his whole stack. I don't like people going south. I've brought the issue up to the player and dealer before, but players that enforce rules just because rules exist annoy me. Saturday, I had to listen to a 5 minute argument because a player at a 300 max buy-in table lost a small pot and wanted an extra $100 worth of chips when he was at 250. Some dumbass-sunglass-wearing-ipod-listening-super-1-2-NL-pro objected. Of course this player (the re-buyer) was a bad LAG and DSWILS12NLP ended up stacking the guy an hour later and so in the end spent 5 minutes arguing only to deprive himself of 50 bucks. 
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#22
10-29-2007, 06:23 PM
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Re: What to do when a player goes south?
I deal limit. At the bigger chip games, I've never encountered anybody trying to do this, and I can imagine every different response possible from the others.
At the lower limits, it's never ended well when someone has tried it. We have a lot of regulars and a lot of nits and they always call the person out on it. The person always racks up and leaves. The person is always a donator. I can certainly understand raising a stink if somebody takes a disproportionately large amount off the table and intends to stay and play regardless. And absolutely no way would I find it acceptable in PL/NL. But every time I've encountered it, it's been a newer player who wasn't planning on playing much longer anyway and who would have most definitely donated what he had left and possibly pulled out a few of those big chips from his pocket if he lost it too quickly. But instead, since people complained, it's just meant an ATM shut down, likely never to return because of such the harsh vulture-like attitude of the regulars.
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#23
10-29-2007, 07:19 PM
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Re: What to do when a player goes south?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Why does anyone in this thread think it's ok to go south for any amount? The floor should be alerted the moment you you see someone take chips off the table. [/ QUOTE ] There are many times where you should let this slide. If some fish wants to protect 50 bucks for dinner with his wife and keep playing with 500, why would I create a stink? If I do whats likely to happen is that he's just going to leave with his whole stack. [/ QUOTE ] You should never let it slide. How pissed are you going to be when someone ratholes and the next hand the jackpot is voided because the person went south?
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#24
10-29-2007, 08:14 PM
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Re: What to do when a player goes south?
How does somebody going south void a jackpot? Have you seen a jackpot not be paid because of this? Perhaps I shouldn't say this, but I suspect most jackpot voiding rules are simply to keep the lotto-chasers in line. A lot easier and with less argument or aquarium-tapping to say "voids jackpot" than to give the real reasons for things.
But then, I wouldn't put it past some floor to become convinced of their own bull-hooey.
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#25
10-29-2007, 08:38 PM
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Re: What to do when a player goes south?
How much experience does a player need before he knows this and other simple common rules of poker? I'd guess around 40 hours of play and after this they have no excuse. Taking chips off the table in any game is cheating period. You allow this to slide, what slides next? "Hey, ol Joes a good guy, he didn't mean to string bet, we'll allow it this time." "I know about the one player to hand rule but Daves is playing Johns money, we can let him ask John can't we." Pretty soon all kinds of rules violations creep into the game. How many times have you sat in a game and watched a dolt hold his hand so your opponent can see his cards every time he looks at them and you play on saying nothing. This happens all the time.
Anybody with much experience breaking the rules is willfully cheating. Allowing this to happen damages the integrity of the game. YOUR GAME. Who cares about peer presure? This isn't a game of making buddies. Sure you treat people with respect and in a friendly way. When people violate the rules they are cheating. You ask the dealer to clairify the rule nicely the first time. Maybe ask "Since chipped down $500 would it be ok dealer if I chip down to $50?". Politely of course. Second time you are more direct. Why preserve this player in the game if he likes to cheat? How many players you could beat filter out of the game because the floor and dealer can't control it and keep it completely on the level? I say you lose more here by tip toeing timmidly around the angle shooter. Bad ettiquete is farting at the table, calling players name, F-bomb, harassing the dealer and etc.... Breaking the rules is cheating. Stand up for yourself and the integrity of the game. If a game isn't kept clean it slowly gets dirtier and dirtier and pretty soon you don't have much of a game. In this game more than any other activity I've ever been involved in I'm compelled to assert you must stand up for yourself. People will cheat in this game. It's unusual to sit for an 8 hour session without seeing some sort of angle shooting/cheating going on. Sometimes it's just an honest mistake or misunderstanding, you let those go. Experienced players know better however. There are those who can't win any other way and they are not ashamed to take every advantage of you that you will allow. If you want a nice game to play in you better take responsibility to preserve it. Additionally, it's a rule in most games that you must protect the other players. You are compelled (not to be a nit picky jerk) to make sure the integrity of the game is preserved for all players. Yes, if a player is accidentally showing his hand, I don't care how much I like the player who's getting to see it, I'll let him know he's showing his hand. I'm honor bound to do so. Dave
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#26
10-29-2007, 08:55 PM
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Re: What to do when a player goes south?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Why does anyone in this thread think it's ok to go south for any amount? The floor should be alerted the moment you you see someone take chips off the table. [/ QUOTE ] There are many times where you should let this slide. If some fish wants to protect 50 bucks for dinner with his wife and keep playing with 500, why would I create a stink? If I do whats likely to happen is that he's just going to leave with his whole stack. [/ QUOTE ] You should never let it slide. How pissed are you going to be when someone ratholes and the next hand the jackpot is voided because the person went south? [/ QUOTE ] Not very, because: 1. I don't play at a jackpot casino. 2. I don't understand how the jackpot can be voided. 3. I'm not talking about going from $1000 to $100, I'm talking about smaller amounts 4. I realize that in the long run having a donater at the table will make me more money then the tiny amount I can expect from a jackpot in that time.
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#28
10-29-2007, 09:00 PM
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Re: What to do when a player goes south?
[ QUOTE ]
How does somebody going south void a jackpot? Have you seen a jackpot not be paid because of this? Perhaps I shouldn't say this, but I suspect most jackpot voiding rules are simply to keep the lotto-chasers in line. A lot easier and with less argument or aquarium-tapping to say "voids jackpot" than to give the real reasons for things. But then, I wouldn't put it past some floor to become convinced of their own bull-hooey. [/ QUOTE ] I have seen a Jackpot get voided due to someone ratholing, I was on the next table and needless to say that people were upset. I don't know the reasoning behind it, but I saw it happen.
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#29
10-29-2007, 09:08 PM
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Re: What to do when a player goes south?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] How does somebody going south void a jackpot? Have you seen a jackpot not be paid because of this? Perhaps I shouldn't say this, but I suspect most jackpot voiding rules are simply to keep the lotto-chasers in line. A lot easier and with less argument or aquarium-tapping to say "voids jackpot" than to give the real reasons for things. But then, I wouldn't put it past some floor to become convinced of their own bull-hooey. [/ QUOTE ] I have seen a Jackpot get voided due to someone ratholing, I was on the next table and needless to say that people were upset. I don't know the reasoning behind it, but I saw it happen. [/ QUOTE ] Some casinos look for ways to invalidate jackpots. Nobody in Nevada is likely to get away with this--I really don't see the Gaming Commission agreeing with the casino that someone removing $100 in chips 3 hands ago invalidates any jackpot won on that table while the player is still there. I imagine the Gaming Agent would roll his eyes and politely ask if they REALLY want to proceed down this path.
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#30
10-29-2007, 09:10 PM
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Re: What to do when a player goes south?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] How does somebody going south void a jackpot? Have you seen a jackpot not be paid because of this? Perhaps I shouldn't say this, but I suspect most jackpot voiding rules are simply to keep the lotto-chasers in line. A lot easier and with less argument or aquarium-tapping to say "voids jackpot" than to give the real reasons for things. But then, I wouldn't put it past some floor to become convinced of their own bull-hooey. [/ QUOTE ] I have seen a Jackpot get voided due to someone ratholing, I was on the next table and needless to say that people were upset. I don't know the reasoning behind it, but I saw it happen. [/ QUOTE ] Since I'm in kind of a bitchy mood, I'd like to point out that you haven't seen a jackpot get voided because of someone ratholing. Hearing about it from the next table while people were yelling and likely don't know what they were talking about doesn't count. If you don't know the reason, I don't really believe you can be that confident that it was because of ratholing.
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