50 Deepstack TPTK vs. Aggresive opponent

dimeetrees · #1 09-23-2007, 04:08 PM

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($50.15)
SB ($186.95)
BB ($136.85)
UTG ($55.70)
Hero ($128.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $1.75, 1 fold, SB calls $1.50, BB calls $1.25.

Flop: ($5.25) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets $5.25, BB folds, Hero raises to $15, SB calls $9.75.

Turn: ($35.25) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $20, SB raises to $60, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $115.25

Dunno if I played this pot too aggressively, but I put opponent on a weaker Queen or a flush draw.

Opponent is 46/25/1.5 over 120 hands

Rounder101 · #2 09-23-2007, 04:16 PM

K is not a terrible card, but this is an awful board to bet this turn IMO. I think his range is FD, something like AdKd, AJd, KJd, AQ, KQ, set of 8s, 7s. I dunno, I prefer checking behind him on the turn, and maybe value bet if checked on the river, or call his bet.

Upgrade_U · #3 09-23-2007, 04:19 PM

Raise more pf, raise flop bigger (deep) and it's ok to bet that turn to charge a lot of draws or a weaker Q, just bet like $25-30 and fold to a raise

pbx · #4 09-23-2007, 04:48 PM

Grunch
Dont bet turn. You are setting yourself up to play a 5 Buyin pot with TPTK. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I like the flop raise as I think it allows you to narrow the range to exclude most flush draws. That being the case I check the turn for pot control as we have position and revaulate on the river.

Ikaika · #5 09-23-2007, 04:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch
Dont bet turn. You are setting yourself up to play a 5 Buyin pot with TPTK. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I like the flop raise as I think it allows you to narrow the range to exclude most flush draws. That being the case I check the turn for pot control as we have position and revaulate on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great post.

Pokey · #6 09-23-2007, 05:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Grunch
Dont bet turn. You are setting yourself up to play a 5 Buyin pot with TPTK. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I like the flop raise as I think it allows you to narrow the range to exclude most flush draws. That being the case I check the turn for pot control as we have position and revaulate on the river.

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Great post.

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I'm going to offer up some blasphemy in this thread: I don't like the flop play.

Preflop is standard.

On the flop, you've got TPTK. Congratulations! You're going to win a small pot or lose a big one. Given that you're 260 BBs deep, you do NOT want to see all the money go in the middle. Do you honestly think TPTK holds up in a 500 BB pot? (Hint: it doesn't.) That means you've basically got two goals in this hand:

1. Charge the draws.
2. Keep the pot small.

On the flop, SB charges himself a healthy sum. A smooth-call here should prove quite revealing. We know our opponent is only moderately aggressive; if he fires a second barrel on a blank turn we can start to wonder whether we should fold. Alternatively, if he checks the turn we can fire a smallish (say, 2/3rds-pot) bet to charge the draw but not commit too much cash.

Our goal is not to force the flush draws out of the hand; they are safely behind right now, after all. Rather, our goal is to charge them an unfair price and extract maximum value from them. SB is already charging an unfair price, and if he's willing to pay off a significant raise after potting the flop, we've got to be deeply concerned about whether our TPTK is any good, here.

Given the way you played this hand, I'd be torn between checking behind on the turn and betting out; my decision would be driven by whether I thought villain was drawing or not. Under normal circumstances, I think I'd just check behind and prepare myself to make a crying call on a non-diamond river, hoping I had induced a bluff. If given the opportunity, I check behind on any river.

Your mistake in this hand was building a big pot when you didn't have a hand that could support it. Pot control is your friend, here, and you threw that option away. I'd be sorely tempted to call down, checking behind whenever I was given the opportunity.

pbx · #7 09-23-2007, 05:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Grunch
Dont bet turn. You are setting yourself up to play a 5 Buyin pot with TPTK. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I like the flop raise as I think it allows you to narrow the range to exclude most flush draws. That being the case I check the turn for pot control as we have position and revaulate on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great post.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to offer up some blasphemy in this thread: I don't like the flop play.

Preflop is standard.

On the flop, you've got TPTK. Congratulations! You're going to win a small pot or lose a big one. Given that you're 260 BBs deep, you do NOT want to see all the money go in the middle. Do you honestly think TPTK holds up in a 500 BB pot? (Hint: it doesn't.) That means you've basically got two goals in this hand:

1. Charge the draws.
2. Keep the pot small.

On the flop, SB charges himself a healthy sum. A smooth-call here should prove quite revealing. We know our opponent is only moderately aggressive; if he fires a second barrel on a blank turn we can start to wonder whether we should fold. Alternatively, if he checks the turn we can fire a smallish (say, 2/3rds-pot) bet to charge the draw but not commit too much cash.

Our goal is not to force the flush draws out of the hand; they are safely behind right now, after all. Rather, our goal is to charge them an unfair price and extract maximum value from them. SB is already charging an unfair price, and if he's willing to pay off a significant raise after potting the flop, we've got to be deeply concerned about whether our TPTK is any good, here.

Given the way you played this hand, I'd be torn between checking behind on the turn and betting out; my decision would be driven by whether I thought villain was drawing or not. Under normal circumstances, I think I'd just check behind and prepare myself to make a crying call on a non-diamond river, hoping I had induced a bluff. If given the opportunity, I check behind on any river.

Your mistake in this hand was building a big pot when you didn't have a hand that could support it. Pot control is your friend, here, and you threw that option away. I'd be sorely tempted to call down, checking behind whenever I was given the opportunity.

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I like it (ignore my post and instead read and re-read this post OP).

The problem with your line (and the line that i reinforced is that unless you overbet the pot on the flop. Nut/2nd Nut FD's are still going to call if the villain has any clue about implied odds. If you do overbet the pot and he has a set then you just stuck a significant amount of money in with almost 0 equity. Smooth Calling keeps the pot small and as pokey said allows us to charge the draws whilst being able to get away from hand if villain starts trying to get his stack in (i.e TPTK is no goot.

Lego05 · #8 09-23-2007, 07:04 PM

I agree with pokey. I was going to say just call flop.

As played turn's close, but I am pretty sure I would almost always check behind.

Fold to the turn check raise is good.

soded · #9 09-23-2007, 09:41 PM

AQ...one of the great reverse implied odds hands...
There's already great advice here, so I'm not going to reiterate anything said.
More of a comment/question about his stats. With a villain so loose as 46% VPIP, would that naturally lower the PF aggression factor as with playing so many hands it's hard to be agressive in a large number of hands. His PFR % is 25% which is the amount of hands a typical TAG might decide to even play, would all of this suggest that he is more aggressive than the 1.5 lets on?

Lego05 · #10 09-23-2007, 10:25 PM

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More of a comment/question about his stats. With a villain so loose as 46% VPIP, would that naturally lower the PF aggression factor as with playing so many hands it's hard to be agressive in a large number of hands.

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Yes it would.

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His PFR % is 25% which is the amount of hands a typical TAG might decide to even play, would all of this suggest that he is more aggressive than the 1.5 lets on?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes he probably is.