This forum needs a makeover

[DinkinFlicka]

I want to apologize if my posts come off as being brash. I've been reading these boards for a few years and I have a great deal of respect for the people who contribute and/or maintain the boards. I just feel that the sports betting coverage could be so much better with some changes. After learning a great deal about poker from these boards I can't help but envision the sports betting information being on that same level. The truth is that the information is not as free flowing or as organized like the poker information. Everything is just lumped into 1 forum and sports betting is not that simple. I am not putting down people who post picks or anything like that, but it does get in the way for many people who aren't in the know and just makes things more jumbled. Not every thread can be a King Yao in the well gem, but with some more organization relevant content will be easier to find for everyone.

[NajdorfDefense]

I don't like the idea of subforums, we don't get enough traffic. I would never read or learn about some of the other sports like MLB if it was somewhere else. I'm guessing most posters are the same. I don't think there's a huge groundswell for MLB-only, NHL-only, etc-only, UFC-only stuff.

If there is, then that's fine with me, but I think the main goal of not having 9 separate NYG v DAL threads is a bigger issue.

[silentbob]

Does the new NFL thread policy apply to prop bets?

(asks the guy who is 5-9 so far this season)

[Performify]

If the prop bets fill in to a specific game or time of games, sure.

If you're posting props for the entire weekend, I have no problem with a separate thread for props or a separate thread for your own picks.

We're still working all this out -- what does everyone else think? What does everyone think about the change so far?

-P

[NajdorfDefense]

[ QUOTE ]
If the prop bets fill in to a specific game or time of games, sure.

If you're posting props for the entire weekend, I have no problem with a separate thread for props or a separate thread for your own picks.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ohgeetee]

For a forum with no traffic, you guys sure do have a hell of a lot of criteria for trying to organize no posts.

The problem with this forum are the posters. Sports bettors don't want to share info, and people come to this forum expecting info to be shared. This creates an instant clash of expectations when anyone new starts reading here. Every thread follows the same couple of scripts:

Person lists picks with or without explanation of said picks.

Regular posters A, B, and C berate said person for no evaluation, or simply discredit said evaluation with no actual backup info.

Next script is

Person A asks for advice on picks

Every regular and semi regular poster on the forum pounces, explaining that one needs to make their own picks, advice given is then replied to with advising not to make picks you don't bet on, etc.


The bottom line is, you aren't going to get any new posters in this forum, with or without organization, because the only discussion available is that telling people what to say and not to say. I often read people defending blind picks with "someone might stumble across this site and put real money on these idiotic picks!" when the reality is, without becoming a professional sports bettor, any sucker willing to try to differentiate between actual picks and questionable picks and put money on it deserves to lose the money invested. It is very obvious once you get here that its a boys club of people waving their [censored] around, outside of a select few posters which takes far too much effort to distinguish anyway.

Sorry for length, that's just my 2 cents from reading this forum for the last month, and finding 0 worthwhile discussion/information outside of the UFC threads, which have been great, but also exist in other 2p2 forums anyway.

[NajdorfDefense]

[ QUOTE ]
you guys sure do have a hell of a lot of criteria for trying to organize no posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you post random links in OOT, they will move/lock your thread. If you post LL HE in PLO, similarly, then they'll ban you. There is actually far *less* criteria here, we're just trying to get organized rather than have 9 Dallas v Chicago threads. Perhaps you think 9 threads on each game would be better, I d/k.

[ QUOTE ]

The problem with this forum are the posters. Sports bettors don't want to share info, and people come to this forum expecting info to be shared.

[/ QUOTE ]

MT2R, YTF, Yao, Perf, and a dozen others I can name off the top of my head share quality info on almost a daily basis.

However, I agree that many successful bettors, like some poker players, don't share their innermost secrets and tricks. Barry Greenstein posts here, but not about his poker strategy.

[ QUOTE ]

Person lists (poker hand) without explanation of said picks.

Regular posters A, B, and C berate said person for no (analysis), or simply discredit said (poker hand) with no actual backup info.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the poker forums operate similarly. There is no 'backup info' for telling a guy he played a hand wrong, it's almost by definition someone else's opinion. These threads exist on every poker sub-forum here. I've read 'NEVER, EVER SLOWPLAY' literally 10,000x in the NL forums. That's bad advice for some hands, and certainly no 'backup info' provided.

[ QUOTE ]



Next script is... advice given is then replied to with advising not to make picks you don't bet on, etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, because that's why we have the sporting events forum. If I went to the poker boards and started posting random hands, how I would play them, how my non-existent opponents reacted, and how much $$$ I would have theoretically won, I think a permaban would follow very quickly. Or play-money hands [which people have posted and gotten flamed/banned for]. Call me crazy.

Just like poker, you have to sit down, think about what you're doing, and actually risk money at some point.
If people want to post their donk 12-team parlays, Perf created a chatter thread for that purpose. Just like we have an Arb thread for people who want to post arbs. Hard to imagine that's 'too much organization.'

[ QUOTE ]
The bottom line is, you aren't going to get any new posters in this forum

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet we are. There's been plenty of new people I've seen this month, some of whom already ask good questions or posted facts/updates on a game I didn't yet know - injuries, odds changes, DrBob's picks, whatever.

[ QUOTE ]

when the reality is, without becoming a professional sports bettor, any sucker willing to try to differentiate between actual picks and questionable picks and put money on it deserves to lose

[/ QUOTE ]

This is kinda the opposite of what you said earlier. No one wakes up one day and says, "Hey, I've never done this b4, but i'm turning pro as a sports bettor/'capper!"

Over time, one learns how to find solid value, how to line shop [#1 skill], how to read the public's view, how to make money props/futures [Bodog helps!], adjusting for new info/line moves, using the Pinny side to find soft books/lines, perhaps specific ideas like fading DrBob line moves or Wong Teasers, etc.

I knew Stanford Wong from counting cards in casinos, not from SB. I learned the math behind Wong Teasers here.

You don't like the forum and that's fine. You didn't add much this month that I saw, either. [and I sincerely apologize in advance if you did add a lot in the UFC threads, but it seems you spend most of your time in BBV4Lyfe.]

But to complain the forum stinks, and then to complain many of us want to improve it by trying new things is simply ridiculous.

[ohgeetee]

"This is kinda the opposite of what you said earlier. No one wakes up one day and says, "Hey, I've never done this b4, but i'm turning pro as a sports bettor/'capper!"

Over time, one learns how to find solid value, how to line shop [#1 skill], how to read the public's view, how to make money props/futures [Bodog helps!], adjusting for new info/line moves, using the Pinny side to find soft books/lines, perhaps specific ideas like fading DrBob line moves or Wong Teasers, etc"

You're absolutely correct, no one wakes up and decides to become a professional sports bettor, which is precisely my point. People wake up and say "hey, I'm looking to school my office in the pool this year, I'll check out the 2p2 sports betting forum to get some tips."

The reality is, the posts here asking for tips are replied to with regurgitated sb forumisms that are of little value to a new poster. I'm not talking about explicitly retarded things like parlays and non wong teaser threads, I'm talking about legitimate attempts at either asking for information, or providing ones thoughts on a game. My point was that in the forums current state, to be able to even differentiate betweent he good and bad advice, one would need to be a pro sports bettor, which would kinda defeat the purpose of offering advice to non pros.

Poker is very different from sports betting, in that poker surely allows for a larger degree of ambiguity in "backup facts", but sports betting should offer much less of this ambiguity. I've read threads here where a guy overvalues home team advantage, or feels missing a key player is going to turn the tide of a game, only to be shot down with "Thats the most retarded thing I've ever read" types of replies, with no "why" behind them. The biggest difference between this forum and the poker forums in that regard, is that the poker forums seem to be much easier to tell who is full of crap when reading these replies, but this forum seems to make it exceptionally hard. For instance, in the last month I've seen you referred to aa a person who lies about their picks, but you're defending legitimate picks in your reply. I have no idea whether you;re full of [censored] or not.


"You don't like the forum and that's fine. You didn't add much this month that I saw, either. [and I sincerely apologize in advance if you did add a lot in the UFC threads, but it seems you spend most of your time in BBV4Lyfe.]"

Where I post and where I read are very different. This is my second post in this forum, and I've read it daily for the last month, and sporadically before then. I don't think I've ever said I didn't "like" the forum, as if I simply didn't like it, I wouldn't even bother to comment in a thread that seems to be looking for a way to improve it.



"If you post random links in OOT, they will move/lock your thread. If you post LL HE in PLO, similarly, then they'll ban you. There is actually far *less* criteria here, we're just trying to get organized rather than have 9 Dallas v Chicago threads. Perhaps you think 9 threads on each game would be better, I d/k."

The reasoning behind the rules in OOT and other forums is due to sheer volume of posts. This forum has very few posts in relation to those mentioned. Focusing on the quality and content of the existing posts would go a long way to encouraging more people to posts and read the forum. Do you think its coincidence that every other day there is a "does anyone know of a good sports betting forum" post in this very forum? I'll tell you a secret, its not because theres 5 NFL threads this week, its because the content of all 5 threads is asstastic. Simply organizing 5 trash cans full of garbage into a dumpster full of garbage only hides the sight, not the smell.

This forum could easily turn into a great resource for people looking to get into sports betting, and for sharp sports bettors to provide info, even if limited, to those looking to get involved. All it takes are the few good posters to step it up a bit and offer something constructive in their daily replies.