"This war is lost" - no it's not! - question for war supporters

[latefordinner]

so in the view of the recent dust-ups over Reid's assertion that the Iraq War is lost and a really brutally violent week there - I want to pose the question to current war supporters - what events or series of events would lead you to believe that the US military presence in Iraq is no longer a helpful thing? What line needs to be crossed before you will say, "[censored] it, this isn't working."

[slickss]

That's a very good question.

[MidGe]

Another question is what would be needed to call the war won. I mean if it isn't won, by definition, imo, it is lost and there has been heaps of goal shifting already, since the US started this illegal intervention.

[HeavilyArmed]

[ QUOTE ]
so in the view of the recent dust-ups over Reid's assertion that the Iraq War is lost and a really brutally violent week there - I want to pose the question to current war supporters - what events or series of events would lead you to believe that the US military presence in Iraq is no longer a helpful thing? What line needs to be crossed before you will say, "[censored] it, this isn't working."

[/ QUOTE ]

Very few understand the cost of losing or abandoning this war in the very much larger picture of war against Islam. The only Dem I know of that gets it is Joe Lieberman.

At the moment and for the near future the costs of the war are small when compaired to the costs of loss or abandonment.

Were it obvious that Islam has reformed I then figure we can relax. Not happening.

I don't support this war so much as I abhor the idea of ceeding this to the enemy with all the power that will confer.

[Kaj]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
so in the view of the recent dust-ups over Reid's assertion that the Iraq War is lost and a really brutally violent week there - I want to pose the question to current war supporters - what events or series of events would lead you to believe that the US military presence in Iraq is no longer a helpful thing? What line needs to be crossed before you will say, "[censored] it, this isn't working."

[/ QUOTE ]

Very few understand the cost of losing or abandoning this war in the very much larger picture of war against Islam. The only Dem I know of that gets it is Joe Lieberman.

At the moment and for the near future the costs of the war are small when compaired to the costs of loss or abandonment.

Were it obvious that Islam has reformed I then figure we can relax. Not happening.

I don't support this war so much as I abhor the idea of ceeding this to the enemy with all the power that will confer.

[/ QUOTE ]

They said the exact same thing about Vietnam and Communism and were 100% wrong as history has proven.

And the analogy is spot on.

We mistook a fight for national power as an international crusade that would have catastrophic impacts in emboldening other Communist uprisings, etc. Dead wrong. Now we mistake a sectarian battle for national power as another international crusade that will have catastrophic impacts in emboldening terrorism. Dead wrong again. Those who fail to learn from history aren't condemned to repeat, the people dying every day in the streets of Baghdad and the soldiers dying each day are the ones repeating it. And in the end, the result will be the same. But more will be needlessly dead, and you folks on the right can swing your dicks and pretend the media and young protesters lost the war, not the real political/military mistakes made every step of the way, and we'll repeat this history in another 20 years.

[slickss]

[ QUOTE ]
Very few understand the cost of losing or abandoning this war in the very much larger picture of war against Islam.
...
Were it obvious that Islam has reformed I then figure we can relax. Not happening.

[/ QUOTE ]
Is this really what we're down to calling it? A war on religion? With that, is any potential victory really defined by the religious conversion of Muslims?

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Very few understand the cost of losing or abandoning this war in the very much larger picture of war against Islam.
...
Were it obvious that Islam has reformed I then figure we can relax. Not happening.

[/ QUOTE ]
Is this really what we're down to calling it? A war on religion? With that, is any potential victory really defined by the religious conversion of Muslims?

[/ QUOTE ]

And how exactly are we supposed to win that? Kill all of them?

[Misfire]

This isn't a war. The Iraq war was won when we took Baghdad. Since then we've asked our soldiers to be policemen, and the usefulness (to the US) is virtually nill. We should either leave, or start actually fighting a war (with an actual, measurable objective).

[Felix_Nietzsche]

When the majority of soldiers serving say that this is not working.

The soldiers in Iraq have an upfront view of the situation. Their lives are on the line. And yet in the last presidential election 80% of the troops supported for Bush (USA today polls). Some soldiers think Iraq is hopelessly screwed up...BUT...most of them think it is worth staying. The US Generals also want to continue the mission.

The polls of the Iraqis are quite interesting. Most of the Iraqis want the USA to leave...BUT...don't leave now. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
If you look at a successful counter insurgency (the Brits in Malaysia), it took several years to quell the resistence. I would give the Iraqis another 6 years.

I think Bush botch the govenoring post-war Iraq many times:
1. Appointing that idiot General Garner.
2. Not killing Sadr after he had a pro-western iman assassinated.
3. Not killing Sadr after his Mahdi(sp?) army rose up to fight US troops.
4. Not turning up the heat against Syria/iran for their material and financial support of the insurgents.
5. Allowing chaos to erupt after Bagdad fell.
6. The implentation of democracy.
6. Etc.... etc.... etc....

But despite these blunders the situation can be salvaged. I just don't know if Bush is the guy to do it.

[latefordinner]

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Very few understand the cost of losing or abandoning this war in the very much larger picture of war against Islam.

[/ QUOTE ]

Crusades FTW!