|
|
|
|
#1
11-19-2007, 11:03 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Every street debatable
I'm not sure I like the river call. If button doesn't have a 7, 54, or 33, he's got to fear that you have a 7 or a King. So he doesn't expect you to fold this river. That means that all you beat is a bluff, and I can't imagine him picking this spot to do it. That said, there are busted heart draws, A3, or complete air that he could pull this off with 10% of the time, which is all you need to call. So calling can't be much of a mistake.
The flop play interests me. Since this was a steal raise preflop, I don't see how we are necessarily losing. Villain should have 6 outs usually, and sometimes we have him drawing to two outs. We would like to charge villain to hit his 6 outer on the river (by c/r flop) instead of allowing him to take a free card on the turn when we just c/c flop. I'd like to hear more analysis of this flop/turn play, because this situation comes up pretty often. If we c/c and he bets the turn with AQ, QJ, Ax, we have to consider folding the best hand. Or else, we risk giving a free card to these hands that are drawing pretty slim. Perhaps if a brick turned, we could donk/fold it to prevent villain from checking behind? So perhaps another line could be c/c, b/f, ?/? Since villain is a LAG, we run the risk of getting raised on the turn by an inferior hand when we c/r the flop, forcing us to make a mistake the times we fold. Seems like c/c and c/r the flop each present difficulties on how to approach the turn. As an alternative, I suppose we can c/c, c/c, c/f. Or else c/c and then bet the river when villain takes a free card on the turn. 
|
|
#2
11-19-2007, 11:22 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Every street debatable
this guy is going to charge himself to draw on the turn.
i just c/c down, and With that turn and river, i'm not folding. As played, you are probably smoked on the river, but I can't see how you can fold.
|
|
#4
11-20-2007, 10:14 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Every street debatable
If we c/c the flop, we have to c/r a turn with a 7 imo. The 7 is a scary card, he folds very often a nine outers. Moreover if he 3 bet, we have 0 or 2 outs and we can make a clean fold.
|
|
#8
11-20-2007, 08:13 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Every street debatable
Flop c/r is standard. It puts pressure on a button raiser w/a wide variety of hands that hate this flop. How do you feel w/QTo no heart? How bout AT no heart? You've gotta c/r here to balance when you will c/r w/a K or strait draw. On the river, I prefer to cc or b/f. Once he raises the river, AK and other good kings need to be put back into his hand range. I take this line all the time against tags in position.
|
|
#9
11-20-2007, 08:56 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Every street debatable
[ QUOTE ]
this guy is going to charge himself to draw on the turn. i just c/c down, and With that turn and river, i'm not folding. As played, you are probably smoked on the river, but I can't see how you can fold. [/ QUOTE ] This whole thread is sick. If I was forced to draw up a better example of when to run the "Check/Call Down" play I would be hard-pressed to beat out this hand. Anybody who doesnt understand why C/Cing down unless the board gets really bad, is the play here needs to re-evaluate their game. I would start by getting back to the basics and opening up their dusty "Theory of Poker" books to pages 270-272. For those like TheHip and Palomino who figured out that C/C down is the play here, you should pat yourselves on the back. If I ever write a book on holdem this will be the type of situation I will use to illustrate when to apply the C/C down play. Here we have the perfect type of hand, against the perfect type of player to run this play so lets not check/raise the flop and screw this up.
|
|
#10
11-20-2007, 09:59 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Every street debatable
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] this guy is going to charge himself to draw on the turn. i just c/c down, and With that turn and river, i'm not folding. As played, you are probably smoked on the river, but I can't see how you can fold. [/ QUOTE ] This whole thread is sick. If I was forced to draw up a better example of when to run the "Check/Call Down" play I would be hard-pressed to beat out this hand. Anybody who doesnt understand why C/Cing down unless the board gets really bad, is the play here needs to re-evaluate their game. I would start by getting back to the basics and opening up their dusty "Theory of Poker" books to pages 270-272. For those like TheHip and Palomino who figured out that C/C down is the play here, you should pat yourselves on the back. If I ever write a book on holdem this will be the type of situation I will use to illustrate when to apply the C/C down play. Here we have the perfect type of hand, against the perfect type of player to run this play so lets not check/raise the flop and screw this up. [/ QUOTE ] not trying to debate you, but how do you know the value of inducing bluffs on this board outweighs the value of him calling down with A high or lower pp + the value of not letting him take free cards? does it just come from experience or is there some way to see that? on a related note, there's stox's c/r c/c c/c line.
|
 |
|
|
Hybrid Mode
