I overlimp T9o in multiway pot and. Hit tp on turn and pot is huge.

Wolfram · #1 06-27-2007, 10:34 PM

Pf-raiser is a lagtard (64/26/1.1). He had done this move before, raising from the blinds when the pot was multiway. He even 3bet A9o in a multiway pot when a tight UTG raised pf with QQ.

The other villains are generally loose and bad.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $10.
UTG calls, MP calls, CO (poster) checks, Hero calls, SB raises, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, BB raises, UTG folds, MP calls, CO folds, Hero 3-bets?

Leader · #2 06-28-2007, 02:15 AM

I would fold the flop and turn here. RIO is huge on the flop. Your outs are junk too and subject to a ton of redraws. Similarly on the turn, you're beat a lot. LAGy guy is bad but he still raised from the SB and bet into the field twice. Then there's the raise and CC. Even if you're not beat, you're probably going to lose when an over comes or a flush card. And you may lose on lots of other cards.

roflnub · #3 06-28-2007, 03:07 AM

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I would fold the flop and turn here. RIO is huge on the flop. Your outs are junk too and subject to a ton of redraws. Similarly on the turn, you're beat a lot. LAGy guy is bad but he still raised from the SB and bet into the field twice. Then there's the raise and CC. Even if you're not beat, you're probably going to lose when an over comes or a flush card. And you may lose on lots of other cards.

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#2 There is nothing more to say.

Wolfram · #4 06-28-2007, 07:02 AM

leader,
You make some good points. But...

Do you really fold the flop getting 15:1 and closing the action? SB had played his A9o hand and another hand exactly the same way. He would bet-bet-bet anything in this spo as long as he faced no resistance. And the flop cold-calls from the other guys pretty much meant they had very little imo.

On the turn, I think it's pretty likely that BB makes this move with a lot of made hands and some draws. He was very aggro and probably had the same read on SB as I did, so why not try to early raise him with a pair and push us out.

Calling is bad imo 'cause the pot is so huge and I want to spend that extra bet to try and win it. There's also a decent chance my raise is for straight value.

I was planning to take a free showdown on most rivers, but I must admit I didn't think enough about what my plan is if BB 4-bets. Do I fold?

ILOVEPOKER929 · #5 06-28-2007, 11:57 AM

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I would fold the flop and turn here. RIO is huge on the flop. Your outs are junk too and subject to a ton of redraws. Similarly on the turn, you're beat a lot. LAGy guy is bad but he still raised from the SB and bet into the field twice. Then there's the raise and CC. Even if you're not beat, you're probably going to lose when an over comes or a flush card. And you may lose on lots of other cards.

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#2 There is nothing more to say.

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Yes there is. Preflop is also a fold. If there is a lagtard in the blinds who likes to raise it up with BS, limping with T9o here will not be profitable.

Neko · #6 06-28-2007, 12:21 PM

I would probably fold at every opportunity in this hand!

Victor · #7 06-28-2007, 12:45 PM

fold pf.

Scary_Tiger · #8 06-28-2007, 01:33 PM

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fold pf.

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Don't fold pf. Do fold flop and turn.

Leader · #9 06-28-2007, 05:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
leader,
You make some good points. But...

Do you really fold the flop getting 15:1 and closing the action? SB had played his A9o hand and another hand exactly the same way.

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Well, if that's the worst he can have on the flop, you're in trouble. And we can't just ignore everyone else. Intutively it seems likely that someone has you dominated, and if no one does then they have collectively a huge redraw on you. So I guess I'm saying you don't have 15:1 odds because when you hit it costs you money which has to be made up for from the pot.

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He would bet-bet-bet anything in this spo as long as he faced no resistance. And the flop cold-calls from the other guys pretty much meant they had very little imo.

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Just because they didn't rasie doesn't mean they don't have you in bad shape. Lots of players will just call better overs or even good draws. BB could have a big hand too and not want to scare people out.

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On the turn, I think it's pretty likely that BB makes this move with a lot of made hands and some draws. He was very aggro and probably had the same read on SB as I did, so why not try to early raise him with a pair and push us out.

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I'm not saying it's impossible that you're good. I'm just saying calling/3-betting loses money. Raiser may have a worse hand. SB probably has a worse hand. CC'er probably has a worse hand. If you have the best hand, it may hold up on the river. Or any one of these things turns out not to be true and you'll lose 2-4 BB.

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I was planning to take a free showdown on most rivers, but I must admit I didn't think enough about what my plan is if BB 4-bets. Do I fold?

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Well you're drawing dead like 90% of the time...10% of the time it's like AA/AT/FD so you have 2 outs.

Edit: I don't fold pf either. This time it turned out bad. Sometimes it doesn't and were in there with a bunch of crappy players. Position too.

Wolfram · #10 06-28-2007, 06:33 PM

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I'm not saying it's impossible that you're good. I'm just saying calling/3-betting loses money. Raiser may have a worse hand. SB probably has a worse hand. CC'er probably has a worse hand. If you have the best hand, it may hold up on the river. Or any one of these things turns out not to be true and you'll lose 2-4 BB.

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Thanks for explaining.

Here's the rest of the hand:

Turn: (9 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, BB raises, UTG folds, MP calls, CO folds, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, BB calls, MP calls.

River: (21 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB calls, MP calls.

Final Pot: 24 BB

BB has 2h 3h (two pair, tens and twos).
MP has 7h 7s (two pair, tens and sevens).
Hero has 9d Tc (three of a kind, tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 24 BB. 

So I won a huge pot. And while I was being results oriented I felt good about my turn 3-bet.

But the more I thought about it the more my instinct told me that something was wrong about how I played it. I just couldn't put my finger on it.

Basically, I'm risking 4 bets to win 24, so I need to be good 1/6 times, and with all the combined factors of how things can go wrong, I won't be. Is that correct?