collusion anyone?

[surfdoc]

Just wanted your guys opinion. The villian here is JJ Raise. He is an old school LAG who now fits in playing 33/23. I think he plays pretty bad in general, too many tables, tilts too much, and gets spazzy when checkraised. But what do I know.

Anyway, his flop call, reraise with J hi no pair no draw when his buddy happens to have a set is pretty strange even for him.

Thoughts?

Pre-flop: (6 players) hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">hero raises</font>, 3 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6SB, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">hero bets</font>, SB calls, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises</font>, hero calls, <font color="#cc0000">SB 3-bets</font>, BB calls, hero calls.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7.5BB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises</font>, hero folds, SB calls.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (11.5BB, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises</font>, BB calls.

SB showed Jc Tc
BB shows 3c 3h

[Guy McSucker]

His flop play is certainly ridiculous but if they're colluding here, what is the aim?

If it's to get more $ out of you, then they messed it up on the turn. Having gotten a massive one small bet from you, they conspire to knock you out of the pot on the turn; it would have been better to use the newly inflated pot size to draw you along for one more bet on fourth street, especially once they have the pot absolutely locked up like that, with a set, a flush draw and a gutshot straight draw between them. No need to protect anymore.

If their purpose was instead to knock you out of the pot on the flop, well, they screwed that up pretty badly too.

One possibility is that they were indeed colluding but didn't know one another's hands. So the SB makes this unorthodox play to allow his pal to knock you off the pot with another raise, and his pal declines the opportunity since he has a monster.

Seems unlikely to me.

Guy.

[Bill Haywood]

Once you are out of the hand, why would they play to showdown and expose incriminating hands? Can't rule out stupidity. But it could also just be normal for a guy who "plays pretty bad in general, too many tables, tilts too much, and gets spazzy...."

[danzasmack]

he's pretty bad IMO

[HOWMANY]

This is like a misclick or collusion 100% of the time. Showing this down if they are colluding would be retarded, so I'll go with misclick.

[dangerfish]

Surf,

Your being paranoid here I think. I have had some of the sickest collusion looking hands.. More like holding AA and river goes bet , raise , rr to me and I fold and winner shows mid pair and rr'er folds.

[Zele]

That is pretty damn strange, OTOH my note on him reads precisely "does inexplicable [censored], esp on cheap streets", so I'm not sold on collusion yet.

Edit: To the best of my memory, I took that note based on 2-handed pots with him.

[whodaman]

doesn't look like collusion... looks like he has cracked the RNG and was value 3 betting teh flop.

[admiralfluff]

This looks a lot more like some of his patented spew tilt than collusion.

Who was the other player?

[surfdoc]

I accept that maybe this was paranoia on my part. That is why I asked you guys instead of just firing out emails to FullTilt.

For those who think that they wouldn't show down if colluding that may not be true. If the games are monitored in any way, once JJ picks up a draw on the turn he could never fold since that would look ridiculous. They would just play out the hand and chop the money.

Guy: I agree with what you are saying to some extent but just because they may be colluding doesnt mean they will do it well. If I have an overpair there and am some random fish it will be a pretty tough hand to get away from vs LAGfish like these.

HOWMANY: It is pretty unlikely for a call/reraise to be a misclick but I accept that as a possibility of course.