A hand against toomuchaction (s915?)

[surfdoc]

So I have noticed that s915 and his 50/40 stats are no longer a fixture in the FT mid limit games. Now there is a guy who plays exactly like him and it really seems to me that somehow he got FT to change his name. Thoughts on this?

Anyway, he remains a pretty solid winner in the game for the 12k hands I have on him but not quite as ridiculous as the 3/100 that s915 had. For those who don't know he is super LAG and keeps the pressure on. He also caps me almost every time I 3 bet him. The BB in this hand is a little more reasonable.

I am just going to put up the hand in its entirety and comments on all streets fine. As far as my plan for the hand if he 3 bets the flop I was probably calling down and maybe folding the river. The hand may not be that intersting but I felt like I had to put a hand in or that damn surf mod might lock my thread since I really want to talk about how to beat this guy...umm...I mean this type of guy.


Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $15/$30
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero 3-bets</font>, 2 folds, BB calls, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (12.67SB, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (8.33BB, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

River: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (8.33BB, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Results:
Final pot: 8.33BB

[Nietzsche]

I don't see how else you could play a hand like this against a guy like this.

[donger]

Ive played against this guy a few times, he's pretty crazy. This hand looks well played on every street to me.

Did you think about value betting the river?

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
Ive played against this guy a few times, he's pretty crazy. This hand looks well played on every street to me.

Did you think about value betting the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I did. I just was super unsure about what to do if checkraised but felt like folding was not an option. From what I have seen he will always bet the river with a pair. So tough to know if he has a better ace. If he does he is calling and if he doesn't he is folding so pretty valueless bet IMO.

[Azalin]

I have way less hands on toomuchaction (1500 or so) and he is -12bb or something like that. FWIW i have a very simple strategy versus him. I dont raise him only with big hands and i threebet him liberally. Also i dont take A high to showdown as a default. Of course i am playing normally/TAG versus the others and i usually get respect from him.

[The Funky Llama]

surdoc, what is his preflop capping range here 3way? If he will cap a bunch of Ax hands and bet the river with any pair it seems like you missed an easy value bet unless he is super good/tricky and knows you will value bet your better aces as well as pocket pairs that might have checked the turn for whatever reason(meaning he will checkraise a lot). If his capping range is more like AJs+ then your check is good.

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
surdoc, what is his preflop capping range here 3way? If he will cap a bunch of Ax hands and bet the river with any pair it seems like you missed an easy value bet unless he is super good/tricky and knows you will value bet your better aces as well as pocket pairs that might have checked the turn for whatever reason(meaning he will checkraise a lot). If his capping range is more like AJs+ then your check is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

His capping range has to be so wide that honestly I think it is close to the same as his raising range. He is super tricky and I don't know if he is super good or not but I do know that I can't beat any game playing that loose and he kills it. I suppose there may be value in betting to induce a bluff checkraise but I was hoping a few of you guys had played him enough to know if that is correct.

[The Funky Llama]

if his capping range is the same as his raising range, you should bet imo. Its not to induce a bluffraise, its simply because there are a lot more worse Ax hands than there are AQ or pairs after he checks the river.

[Enon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
surdoc, what is his preflop capping range here 3way? If he will cap a bunch of Ax hands and bet the river with any pair it seems like you missed an easy value bet unless he is super good/tricky and knows you will value bet your better aces as well as pocket pairs that might have checked the turn for whatever reason(meaning he will checkraise a lot). If his capping range is more like AJs+ then your check is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

His capping range has to be so wide that honestly I think it is close to the same as his raising range. He is super tricky and I don't know if he is super good or not but I do know that I can't beat any game playing that loose and he kills it. I suppose there may be value in betting to induce a bluff checkraise but I was hoping a few of you guys had played him enough to know if that is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've played a ton with this guy over the past 2 months and I can tell you that after the turn goes check check here, he will always bet his pairs and will even bet a lot of his weaker aces sometimes hoping to fold out a bigger one. He can be unpredictable a lot but on the river he is pretty straightforward with his made hands. Only time I've seen him checkraise me on the river was when he continued his turn spew bluffs. I see value in betting this river against worse aces and also by inducing a possible bluffraise.

You guys are right that his capping range and his 3 betting range into 2+ opponents is a lot wider than most lags. I've seen him show up with medium pairs in this situation and also seen him show up with complete garbage if there is a CO stealer, a sb caller and he liberally 3 bets his bb.

I really enjoy playing against toomuchaction since he is a challenge to adapt to and it is fun to loosen up my reraising range against him and figure out the best way to exploit him. He spews way to much and it doesn't take very long to figure out ways to counter him after the flop.

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
surdoc, what is his preflop capping range here 3way? If he will cap a bunch of Ax hands and bet the river with any pair it seems like you missed an easy value bet unless he is super good/tricky and knows you will value bet your better aces as well as pocket pairs that might have checked the turn for whatever reason(meaning he will checkraise a lot). If his capping range is more like AJs+ then your check is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

His capping range has to be so wide that honestly I think it is close to the same as his raising range. He is super tricky and I don't know if he is super good or not but I do know that I can't beat any game playing that loose and he kills it. I suppose there may be value in betting to induce a bluff checkraise but I was hoping a few of you guys had played him enough to know if that is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've played a ton with this guy over the past 2 months and I can tell you that after the turn goes check check here, he will always bet his pairs and will even bet a lot of his weaker aces sometimes hoping to fold out a bigger one. He can be unpredictable a lot but on the river he is pretty straightforward with his made hands. Only time I've seen him checkraise me on the river was when he continued his turn spew bluffs. I see value in betting this river against worse aces and also by inducing a possible bluffraise.

You guys are right that his capping range and his 3 betting range into 2+ opponents is a lot wider than most lags. I've seen him show up with medium pairs in this situation and also seen him show up with complete garbage if there is a CO stealer, a sb caller and he liberally 3 bets his bb.

I really enjoy playing against toomuchaction since he is a challenge to adapt to and it is fun to loosen up my reraising range against him and figure out the best way to exploit him. He spews way to much and it doesn't take very long to figure out ways to counter him after the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I think you are right here and my read was just developing at the time I played this hand and he showed 89o and MHIG. As far as exploiting this type of player I am still looking for insight. It seems like he finds folds when I show aggression but will keep firing when I play passively. This has led to a cycle where I end up slowplaying all my strong hands against him and letting him hang himself. The problem with this is that I don't get in multiple bets on the big streets. It would seem that a simple counter would be to just raise him more but I have found that trying to outlAG him is an unwise idea. Both he and s915 (I still think they are the same) have an uncanny way of knowing which boards you are unlikely to hit and play back hard.