Basic Theory - Raising preflop

[uminchu]

[ QUOTE ]
matrix,

This thread is excellent. Here's my 2 pence (I just spoke British, heh):

Whenever you decide to raise pre-flop, have a default plan for how you intend to play the hand post flop if you 1) hit, 2) miss or 3) partially hit the board.

Have an idea of what you will do if villain shows aggression or is passive. Anyway, I do not want to hijack an excellent pre-flop thread with a lot of post thoughts, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Cliff Notes: Before you raise pre-flop, have a post-flop plan.

[/ QUOTE ]

golden I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] this thread

[munkey]

[ QUOTE ]

This thread is excellent. Here's my 2p (I just spoke British, heh):

Cliff Notes: Before you raise pre-flop, have a post-flop plan.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP_BS(British Standards)

Ye, missed this one our preflop play feeds into our postflop so by playing well prelfop we can have easier postflop decisions.

[Jintster]

Great thread. I'm primarily a $10-$20 SNG and MTT player, but have started to play a little cash (.10/0.25) too. Good results so far on a small sample - I've been surprised at how poor some of the play is, even compared with low level SNGs.

I have to admit I've been using the tournie standard 3xbb plus 1 per limper so far so this thread is very +ev for me.

I'd always adhered to the using a standard raise in all situations until recently but am starting to vary my bets more. I'm likely to use higher raises in early position where I really hate not having two or more people act behinf me post-flop. For example, I have JJ in MP1. I will raise more than my standard because I hate being out of position when a Q, K or A flops and I have to give it up by checking or risk a c-bet.

I'm not worried about people picking up information from me at this level.

[King Spew]

[ QUOTE ]
King Spew-

Interesting post. You're almost advocating a loose passive strategy ....

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks quark. First off, I would like to say that on this new Micro forum we are caught in a conundrum.... we need to understand that we are talking to beginners as well as seasoned veterans that for whatever reason, haven't made a permanent move to the $50 tables and beyond. There is a beginners section on this site, but I believe this section will get more beginner traffic as NL is the TV game and the beginner's section covers many different games really.

So my post was merely an attempt to show a different, yet successful way to play preflop. As you noted in your post (and I discovered in my DB also) Loose passives can win on the Micro tables.
Not all do though. As 4-2-it and others have suggested, postflop is where it's at, baby. Being loose-pass PF allows you to learn a post-flop game that you can take to the higher tables. When you move up, you will have to raise 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] PF; you will now have a fairly good idea how to handle that hand postflop under a variety of flops.

Quark, you touched on something I think is very valuable about this strat..... hand reading. I know my reading skills have improved since I stopped blasting every PF bet.

Lastly, it's kinda fun [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I get to play more hands. WHHhhheeeeeeeeeeeee! When I was practicing a TAG game earlier this year, I almost never hand a hand when the flop was J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] against three opps. Now, I'm Da Playah that everybody fears has the 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
King Spew-

Interesting post. You're almost advocating a loose passive strategy ....

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks quark. First off, I would like to say that on this new Micro forum we are caught in a conundrum.... we need to understand that we are talking to beginners as well as seasoned veterans that for whatever reason, haven't made a permanent move to the $50 tables and beyond. There is a beginners section on this site, but I believe this section will get more beginner traffic as NL is the TV game and the beginner's section covers many different games really.

So my post was merely an attempt to show a different, yet successful way to play preflop. As you noted in your post (and I discovered in my DB also) Loose passives can win on the Micro tables.
Not all do though. As 4-2-it and others have suggested, postflop is where it's at, baby. Being loose-pass PF allows you to learn a post-flop game that you can take to the higher tables. When you move up, you will have to raise 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] PF; you will now have a fairly good idea how to handle that hand postflop under a variety of flops.

Quark, you touched on something I think is very valuable about this strat..... hand reading. I know my reading skills have improved since I stopped blasting every PF bet.

Lastly, it's kinda fun [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I get to play more hands. WHHhhheeeeeeeeeeeee! When I was practicing a TAG game earlier this year, I almost never hand a hand when the flop was J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] against three opps. Now, I'm Da Playah that everybody fears has the 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny this particular topic came up because it is something I have been mulling over and was considering a post on. I recently had to drop to the 25NL tables due to real life circumstances. And I have been playing pretty loose. Because I played as high as 1/2 when my bankroll was still intact, I almost feel like the 25NL tables are free money. Here is the key: Dont play the speculative hands OOP.
In the CO and Button Im making a lot of loose calls. I dont do this with utter trash of course. I still play very aggressively too but I tend to limp a bit more at the 25 tables because CBs are slightly less effective (depending on the table of course).

I remember when I first started playing way back when thinking to myself that it was near impossible to put people on hands. Now I find it trivial at these limts. Why? Because by and large these guys are so passive and play all their like hands in like fashions that you figure them out quick. I had a guy last night that would minraise the river as a bluff. Never saw him do it with a hand worth raising the river with.

Im with King Spew here. Play as many hands as you can at these limits. Do it when you have position, tighten up in the early positions. Stay aggressive though, dont be afraid to put people to the test. They will fold more than you think and if you are up against "that guy", then just value bet him death.

[King Spew]

[ QUOTE ]
Play as many hands as you can at these limits. Do it when you have position, tighten up in the early positions. Stay aggressive though, dont be afraid to put people to the test. They will fold more than you think and if you are up against "that guy", then just value bet him death.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, something I did not mention as this is a thread about preflop raising. Post Flop aggression MUST be a part of ANY NL strategy...... except a losing one. Personally, even though I limp in a lot, my AF (without PF stats) is close to 3.5 I make sure that my table knows that when I PSB on the flop, they WILL see a PSB on both the turn and river. Makes 'em fold or easy to read.... what a nice combo [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[duckman]

[ QUOTE ]


Yes, something I did not mention as this is a thread about preflop raising. Post Flop aggression MUST be a part of ANY NL strategy...... except a losing one. Personally, even though I limp in a lot, my AF (without PF stats) is close to 3.5 I make sure that my table knows that when I PSB on the flop, they WILL see a PSB on both the turn and river. Makes 'em fold or easy to read.... what a nice combo [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Either you are exceptionally successful at slecting when to c-bet or you are spewing to calling stations if you follow this blanket policy independent of board texture and opponnents

[kbinder]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm likely to use higher raises in early position where I really hate not having two or more people act behinf me post-flop. For example, I have JJ in MP1. I will raise more than my standard because I hate being out of position when a Q, K or A flops and I have to give it up by checking or risk a c-bet.

I'm not worried about people picking up information from me at this level.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is standard preflop strategy for me as well. Not only are you charging people more for playing speculative hands, you're also charging them to play in position. Generally, the larger the pot is (in proportion to stack sizes), the less value there is to position. My EP raises are almost always larger than my LP raises, assuming the same number of limpers.

[King Spew]

[ QUOTE ]
Either you are exceptionally successful at slecting when to c-bet or you are spewing to calling stations if you follow this blanket policy independent of board texture and opponnents

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I tend to select target rich tables b4 sitting down. I look for a high VP$IP with lower table PFR%.... kinda tells me it's juicy. Always WaitList a good table!

Once at the table, I'll try and set the tone with quality hands over the first 40 hands or so. If I'm lucky, I've had a few hands that I could push PSB,PSB,PSB and get a fold or win a SD. After that, I usually have picked out a great target (who will always follow then fold) to PSB,PSB,PSB then show utter trash.
If I can get away with showing two trash hands over the next 20 hands or so...... this table is mine. Holla, ship it!

If the stars don't align for that kind of a start, I continue my weak-kneed game until either (a) a better table comes along or (b) my cards start getting hot.

Call stations.... you would be surprised at the high % of CS that follow PSB,PSB only to fold to a PSB on the river. Plus, what I LOVE seeing is when a known CS is at the table and he stops calling if I'm in the hand.... how easy is dat? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Sure, I lose some big pots to CStations.... but it's always good for the metagame.

It's ALL in the prep work. I try to NEVER forget this.

FWIW, I also open up Notes on all players (having three monitors is VERY +EV). I try to always put an * at the start of every note if a player has seen me be uber-aggressive post flop. As an example, I was playing last night with a guy that had five *****. I kept a closer eye on him.

[mojobluesman]

Great thread guys, but I have a question.

What happens when it's already opened for a raise in front of you and you have a hand good enough to re-raise.

How do you size that kind of bet?