Full Tilt Turbo Hundo FT: Donk play with 8s UTG?

[Xuan768]

I'm a cash player who impulsively played the Turbo Hundo. Since I'm not a tournament player, I wasn't really sure of how good/bad this is. I have basic knowledge of tournament ideas such as M, but very little else. There are no significant reads other than that play has settled down quite a bit since the beginning of the final table.

Full Tilt Poker, NL Hold'em Tournament, 2,000/4,000 Blinds, 500 Ante, 8 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

MP2: 30,120
CO: 53,989
BTN: 24,246
SB: 42,890
BB: 40,903
Hero (UTG): 41,240
UTG+1: 46,390
MP1: 58,222

Pre-Flop: (10,000) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to 18,000</font>

With an M of approximately 4, I know I'm playing the 8s. The question was whether or not to shove, or raise. My thought process was that I want to reduce the likelihood of letting my opponents see the turn and river by making a large raise preflop and shoving any flop to give me a better chance of "winning" the race. Obviously, I am calling if someone shoves preflop. With an M of just 4, shoving is probably very very standard here, but is this bad, or is this okay, and why?

Thanks!

[mackyg12]

shove.

if u raise to 18k, a person w/ AK could shove, another guy behind him with AK could call, and u would have to muck...

if u shove...well u can maybe get AQ to call, AK to reshove and ur looking good to more than triple up.

[trimp]

Whats the payout structure? Doesn't seem like great $ev.

[d2themfi]

just shove

[Hattifnatt]

I prefer just shoving, but if your certain you will call a shove and shove Any flop yourself if called I dont hate your play/thought process.

[trimp]

If we're shoving, I don't think it matters that we have 88, we could have any two, nothing that doesn't dominate this should call. So you're pushing to win the blinds, I don't think those blinds do that much for our equity in the tournament. The shove is -$EV in my opinion.

[Chesskid1]

shove 100% of the time here, and if you don't you are bad. Nobody is flat calling here and folding to a shove on the flop, just too much in the middle. Turbos you have to push your edges and you are getting called by AK/AQ alot here, and if you run into an overpair, unlucky, nature of turbos, if you want more play, play a slower tournament.

[Hattifnatt]

[ QUOTE ]
If we're shoving, I don't think it matters that we have 88, we could have any two, nothing that doesn't dominate this should call. So you're pushing to win the blinds, I don't think those blinds do that much for our equity in the tournament. The shove is -$EV in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol, so you are folding the hand?

[d2themfi]

[ QUOTE ]
If we're shoving, I don't think it matters that we have 88, we could have any two, nothing that doesn't dominate this should call. So you're pushing to win the blinds, I don't think those blinds do that much for our equity in the tournament. The shove is -$EV in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

what??? AK AQ dont call atleast? These turbos play really loose and fast. Plus I have been called in this spot in non turbos with 66 and 77. U have to remember most people suck

[luckychewy]

[ QUOTE ]
If we're shoving, I don't think it matters that we have 88, we could have any two, nothing that doesn't dominate this should call. So you're pushing to win the blinds, I don't think those blinds do that much for our equity in the tournament. The shove is -$EV in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

nah, shoving is definitely the play. the reason it's better than having any two is because of our equity when called. really simple to just play w/ pokerstove and plug any reasonable call range and see that when we have 88 we have far far more equity when called than when we shove any two vs any call range, thus resulting in us needing a lower fold rate on the shove w/ 88, and a higher fold rate w/ any two.

secondly, winning the blinds/antes is huge here. in a turbo especially because we have easily be knocked down to 6bb's after we pass bb/sb and the blinds inevitably move up very shortly, but there is really no situation i can think of where 88 would be a fold here.