The delayed river check raise...

[HoneyBadger]

Yesterday I was playing a fairly aggressive opponent (pretty lagtarded imo) and a hand like this came up (I can't remember exactly):

Hero BB with 77. Villain open raises, all fold to Hero who calls.

Flop: Q74r or something
Hero bets. Villain calls.

Turn: K
Hero bets. Villain raises. Hero calls.

River: blank
Hero checks. Villain bets. Hero raises. Villain thinks and calls.

It was a cute play, but I'm not sure it was very smart. Simply 3 betting and leading would also get me 4 bets with way less risk. On the other hand I was concerned he would fold to a 3 bet, and I was almost sure he would continue betting given the player type. so in hindsight I don't think it was very smart, but it sure felt smart [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Thoughts? (basically I did this because lately I see all these "raise turn fold to a 3bet" type of plays, who will continue to bluff the river when called and check to)

[drgfire]

I like your turn/river play. I do it frequently with the read on villain you gave. Is it good or bad? We never know, since we cannot see how it would have turned out otherwise...

Your flop donk is more dubious imo. Your goal in this hand is to extract the most out of your opponent, does a donk really work towards this? I guess you need to be fairly sure he raises.

[HoneyBadger]

I didn't have the hand here... I can check when I come home. I'm not sure this is what happened, it might have been the case that I raised preflop and he cold called. (I just know I was OOP, I flopped a set, and this is how the action went)

[mvoss]

I don't get the flop donk, I'd either c/r or c/c to raise later depending on the opponent. The turn/river line is fine IMO, but 3-bet/leading would be good as well, I guess it depends on how likely villain is to fold to either play.

[HoneyBadger]

Nah, I'm not going to c/c flop and then check again hoping to raise, I lose too much value on my set. I'm just going to bet out hoping he raises. then I have to decide between 3 betting and leading, or calling and check raising. If opponent is calling stationish I prefer the immediate 3 bet, if he's very aggressive I prefer the c/r. Against a solid player I might at times call and donk the turn, hoping to be raised (pretty much like now)

I really think if you flop a hand as strong as a set you should be betting. Don't give them the chance to go to showdown for 1.5 BB, or even draw for only 0.5 BB. With position you have more options to just call instead of raise, but OOP you have to get money in.

[mvoss]

Bet/3-bet is a possibility on the flop, but with a hand this strong and in a pot this small I want to get in a raise on a big street if I can. Against most lagtards I think I can.

[James.]

from what position did he open? did you consider 3betting pf? i like a b/3b on the turn, fwiw.

[HoneyBadger]

I forgot, I'll look it up. Think I made a mistake in writing the hand.

[swong4444]

If the action is as posted, then I check the flop and let villain c-bet. If hero is the pfr, then betting the flop is standard.

I'm not sure I like the turn + river play. If villain is raise/folding the turn, then he is probably checking behind the river. I can't think of many hands that would fold to a turn 3-bet, but would also bet the river if not 3-bet on the turn (maybe complete bluffs?). IMO, hero's line will result in earning AT MOST as much as just 3-betting the turn and leading the river (as it did in this case). On the other hand, if hero just keeps betting, there will be times when villain improves on the river, and hero can extract even more.

[Heisenb3rg]

Not a great play, an ace falling can induce a king or a queen to check behind.

Sometimes people do freeshowdown raises with outs (stupid) so sometimes youd prefer to fold them out anyways.