Live Play Discussion

JKratzer · #1 05-31-2007, 01:15 PM

a lot of us are going to be in vegas this month/next and i personally would like to see some discussion about vegas play. good casinos for msnl, common mistakes online kids make playing live, etc.

one thing about the games in vegas is they tend to play a lot deeper than online. a question i have is how often that deep stack actually comes into play? it almost seems like really deep stacks discourage a lot of action because the threat of building a pot and having it all go into play makes people cautious about earlier streets. while if you just buy-in for 100bb or so the deep stacks have no problem making moves on you because they're a lot more comfortable knowing they're not going to be put to a really tough decision. this is a generalization, i'm sure there are some deep stack crazy games etc., just an observation from my limited live experience.

i know of some you guys that play live a lot could have some good tips. also, if this thread doesn't get moved/deleted we could maybe update this as the series goes on with where good games are located/amusing stories/etc.

TheWorstPlayer · #2 05-31-2007, 01:17 PM

play is definitely deep, but the live players dont usually understand the significance. they still overplay TPTK but now for 300bb instead of 100bb. means you can build big pots and win with overpairs. lotsa fun.

pokeriseasy · #3 05-31-2007, 02:19 PM

Yea I agree with TWP, live players will overplay TP very badly, even the "good" live players. I played in a game yesterday where a guy called an all in shove for 150BB after putting in 60BB or so with 97 on a 93c2cT board. I saw another guy get all in on a 732 flop in a 3bet flop for 250BB with TT and called the 3bet shove like he had the best hand.

But also the NYC live games tend to play alot more aggressive then average casino games.

DJ Sensei · #4 05-31-2007, 02:48 PM

The key when playing live and deep is to figure out which players know how to play a deep stack, and which don't. Chances are people who buy in for a smaller one and then build it up won't really know what they're doing because they aren't accustomed to it, but some will err on the side of caution while others will become more bold because they're winning.

If you're looking for 5/10 capped games, play the Bellagio. For uncapped ones, play Venetian or Wynn. For 2/5, you can play pretty much anywhere respectable (the Wynn game is uncapped). I haven't been to Vegas during WSOP time, so I don't know what kind of cash games the Rio has running. That could either be a great place to play (people coming straight from a tourney bustout, tourists wanting to try their hand after seeing all the big name pros) or it could be a bad place to play (huge lines for games, tired dealers) so I don't know. Hopefully there will be plenty of action.

berserk · #5 05-31-2007, 03:01 PM

Are uncapped games looser/wilder because of deeper stacks, giving someone that buys in for 100bb a nice advantage? Or do they end up playing pretty similarly?

Money2Burn · #6 05-31-2007, 03:47 PM

How is the Venetian's 2-5 game during tourney time?

KingGordy · #7 05-31-2007, 03:53 PM

I think the stack depth is somewhat neutralized by the ridiculous preflop raises that live players make. So even though you might be 300bb's deep the same % of the effective stacks is going in pre as it would be with 100-150bb's online.

soah · #8 05-31-2007, 04:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
also, if this thread doesn't get moved/deleted we could maybe update this as the series goes on with where good games are located

[/ QUOTE ]

seems like a bad idea

I'm all for sharing and helping out, but posting stuff like that in a public forum is just going to help out the leeches that flock to the games that others have scouted.

pokeriseasy · #9 05-31-2007, 04:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the stack depth is somewhat neutralized by the ridiculous preflop raises that live players make. So even though you might be 300bb's deep the same % of the effective stacks is going in pre as it would be with 100-150bb's online.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's true at 1/2, but as the games get bigger the raise sizes get more normal. At a 5/10 game the normal open raise will be anywhere from 40-60, but you will have some guys that open to 70 or 80. The huge raises in the bigger games only really happen when you have a straddle, which I don't believe the Vegas casinos use.

Aisthesis · #10 05-31-2007, 05:09 PM

Yeah, I agree. I was out there a few weeks ago and played Bellagio, Caesar's and Wynn 2/5 and watched a friend of mine play 10/20 at the Bellagio.

The 10/20 Bellagio as well as the 2/5 Wynn had a lot of deep stacks, but I really didn't think that in either case that many of the players really knew what they were doing as deep as they were.

That of course doesn't necessarily mean you should buy in really deep yourself unless you feel like you know how to handle a stack like that. I bought in for $600 at the Wynn but regretted not having had maybe $800 on the table.

Anyhow, all of those games are very beatable--just depends on what style you prefer and/or if you feel like the $500 cap at Bellagio is a hindrance. I can't really remember whether the 2/5 was capped at Caesar's. I almost think it wasn't but not sure.

My impression for then is that the Wynn game is good for a player who likes to wait patiently for a big score. Bellagio and Caesar's played more along the lines of "raise a lot very loosely and fold to any heat," so those are good games to chip away at players who put in a medium amount, then fold because they're weak--at the Wynn you'd better be pretty strong yourself (at least at the table where I was at) because they'll pop it to you if they have a decent (not necessarily great) hand or think they can get you off yours.