Lloyd Carr Retiring

[Case Closed]

Wow, please do this. It would be beyond hilarious if Michigan did this.

[Annulus]

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i got a bad feeling about this. could michigan really [censored] up this bad? not with football



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Compared to our last 2 coaches, Ferentz has a Hall of Fame track record. Moeller and Carr had a combined 6 wins as a college head coach(Moeller was 6-24 at Illinois from 77-79).

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michigan is in a very different situation at the moment. osu, bowl games, and app. state just to name a few of the problems. we have no room for error imo. we need to hire someone who we feel is top tier, not a mediocre. even if the big name fails, at least we tried. thats not to say ferentz could possible end up being a good coach here.

i feel alumni/fans deserve better and mich better not screw us like this.

[damaniac]

One thing to give hope: nothing from any Michigan insiders as of yet. Highly unlikely an offer is made and accepted with no one saying anything at all about it. This, plus the really weird timing/process (to say nothing of the actual decision) means I hold out hope.

Just in case though, couldn't hurt to send Bill Martin an email explaining why this would be a bad thing. Not that he'll care, but I get to pretend I matter.

[Annulus]

i agree. im going to try to not think about this and not let it ruin my mood until its confirmed. for now, its just another internet rumor.

[DVaut1]

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i got a bad feeling about this. could michigan really [censored] up this bad? not with football



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Compared to our last 2 coaches, Ferentz has a Hall of Fame track record. Moeller and Carr had a combined 6 wins as a college head coach(Moeller was 6-24 at Illinois from 77-79).

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That's certainly true. But of course just because you made poor decisions that happened to work our to some extent (we can debate how good Moeller and Carr were, but that's neither here nor there, point is neither was a trainwreck), that hardly justifies doing it again. Ferentz could do as well as Carr did, which is hardly bad. It's not impossible that he could do very well either. But there are coaches with better track records (mostly, without a really awful dip the last 3 years) that have a better chance of working out. A decision has to be analyzed based on possible alternatives; this one looks quite bad from that perspective.

I realize I may be preaching to the choir here, but it needed to be said.

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The thing is, even the biggest irrational Ferentz haters (like me) will admit that he probably can't fall on his face that badly. Given the institutional advantages, resources, facilities, ties to feeder high schools in the midwest and elsewhere, etc. -- and the move towards scheduling a bunch of MAC cupcakes to accompany ND on our out of conference schedule -- Michigan probably won't ever bottom out ala Notre Dame. *Most* people, Ferentz included, can probably recruit and coach well enough to get 7 or 8 wins annually against Toledo, Eastern Mich., Bowling Green, and Big Ten bottom feeders. Honestly, I don't think Ferentz can't be drastically worse than Lloyd as a gameday coach; the 2005 and 2007 seasons are probably about as bad as things get. I guess I may eat my words here -- Ferentz did lose to Iowa State and Western Michigan this year, so I suppose there's no guarantee we won't really implode. But he's probably pretty 'safe', all things considered, and likely will be able to continue with the same level of success Lloyd has had recently.

But that's exactly why I hate this hire if it comes to fruition -- because I think it signals complete and total complacency. We're way behind OSU as a program now, who is a perennial national title contender (11-1 this season in a 'rebuilding' year, coming back next year absolutely loaded if everyone sticks around). And I think it's clear if we hire Ferentz that not only are we way behind them as a football program, but we have no real intention of catching up. We're happy to just have 110,000 people sit in Michigan Stadium and watch 21-14 games against Northwestern and sing the Victors and go to the Rose Bowl once in a while.

I'm not saying Miles or Kelly will do what sweatervest has done at OSU. Duplicating that is difficult. But I feel like hiring Ferentz demonstrates that recreating that kind "year in, year out national title contender" type of success in Ann Arbor isn't a priority; hiring Ferentz is a clear signal our goal isn't necessarily success on the football field, but that the program exists instead to give cushy jobs to friends, to pat ourselves on the back incessantly for running a "clean" program (under the fallacious premise that the Michigan coach, whoever it is, is invariably one of the only people who can run a 'clean' program), to give the blue-haired alumni a photogenic old nice white guy (who doesn't cuss in media events) to point to as 'classy' and as a 'molder of Michigan Men', blah blah blah.

I'm so tired of the "clean program" narrative and it's completely inane premises (running a "clean" program, whatever that means, is the most important thing -- and that there are only a handful of characters, specifically whoever the Michigan Athletic Department says so, that are capable of running such clean programs). The narrative rears its ugly head after every ugly loss to Appalachain State and Ohio State alike, and says something similar to: "if you want to be successful like Tressel and Stoops and Meyer, you've got to be some kind of impolite cheater, running afoul of NCAA rules and/or human decency to win games; hence even when we lose, we're the real winners, because we lost with institutional class" or some such business. I'm not saying we turn the football program into the Steve Fisher/Ed Martin basketball program, but Michigan seems to have a kind of terrible institutional arrogance that if the potential head coaching football candidate doesn't have some kind of incestuous history with the University, they're probably some kind of dirty cheater and not to be trusted. It seems as if "coaches with a track record of winning consistently and recruiting well and the capability to run a non-embarrassing program" and "not liked by the current powers-that-be" are treated as mutually exclusive propositions by said powers that be and their defenders. If a candidate isn't favored by the powers that be (Lloyd, Mary Sue, whoever), they seem inevitably smeared with the "uh oh, they might run a dirty program, watch out!" brush by the various apologists -- see Miles and the various accusations by Michigan insiders of various improprieties, or Kelly and the constant innuendo he tacitly approved of his CMU players murdering people or whatever ridiculous charges are leveled against him due to that incident...ergo he'll turn Michigan into the next Miami FL.

I know the Ferentz hire obviously isn't anywhere near confirmed, but if it becomes official, I'm going to have a hard time preventing myself from vomiting when that narrative rears its ugly head, and provides all the Lloyd and Bill Martin apologists a justification and defense for taking all of 6 days to hire a guy who's 11-13 in the Big Ten since 2005: "but he'll run a clean program" and "he's so classy, just like Lloyd" they'll all say. And when we're 8-4 year after year and headed to the Outback and Alamo Bowl, the "clean program" and "classy guy" narrative will give never-ending cover for continued stagnation, complacency, and mediocrity.

[mpitts]

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I know the Ferentz hire obviously isn't anywhere near confirmed, but if it becomes official, I'm going to have a hard time preventing myself from vomiting when that narrative rears its ugly head, and provides all the Lloyd and Bill Martin apologists a justification and defense for taking all of 6 days to hire a guy who's 11-13 in the Big Ten since 2005: "but he'll run a clean program" and "he's so classy, just like Lloyd" they'll all say. And when we're 8-4 year after year and headed to the Outback and Alamo Bowl, the "clean program" and "classy guy" narrative will give never-ending cover for continue stagnation, complacency, and mediocrity.

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There is no way that I could express my discontent for the potential hire of Ferentz than with the words you have already written.

Michigan fans don't want more of the same and that is exactly what Kirk Ferentz is.

[Dudd]

Why would they hire Ferentz, he's clearly not a coach that Michigan fans want and unless I'm missing something, he doesn't have any ties to Michigan other than being from the area. Please do this.

[DVaut1]

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unless I'm missing something, he doesn't have any ties to Michigan other than being from the area.

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The current president of U of M (Mary Sue Coleman) was formerly the president at Iowa and was at least partially responsible for bringing in Ferentz there. Apparently she likes him very much. As for how much influence she has in the athletic department, that's up for debate; if Ferentz gets hired, then chances are her influence is considerable.

Also, his daughter is apparently a student at Michigan.

[damaniac]

Assuming he's the guy, he will get no grace period from the fans at all. We lose a lot next year. The schedule isn't that bad (actually, most of the tough games will be at home with Illinois, Wisconsin, and maybe State, only OSU and PSU on the road), but still, a good coach could go 8-4 or 9-3 (they could do better, too, the cupboard isn't bare). If we hired Miles or Kelly and they came in and went 9-3 and it wasn't a great year and we lost to OSU in Columbus people won't be thrilled but running a more exciting system (hopefully) and with new coaches we'll be optimistic for the future. If Ferentz goes 8-4 people are going to be instantly grumbling about "Lloyd part II". Fair or not, this is how it goes down, and people will be calling for his head the instant something goes wrong (such as having him hired in the first place).

[JackWhite]

[ QUOTE ]
I know the Ferentz hire obviously isn't anywhere near confirmed, but if it becomes official, I'm going to have a hard time preventing myself from vomiting when that narrative rears its ugly head, and provides all the Lloyd and Bill Martin apologists a justification and defense for taking all of 6 days to hire a guy who's 11-13 in the Big Ten since 2005: "but he'll run a clean program" and "he's so classy, just like Lloyd" they'll all say. And when we're 8-4 year after year and headed to the Outback and Alamo Bowl, the "clean program" and "classy guy" narrative will give never-ending cover for continued stagnation, complacency, and mediocrity.


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Good post. As you mentioned, we are way behind OSU right now, with next year looking like a repeat of '68 or '84 when we are going to be spanked. We really need a home run, not a sacrifice bunt. If our top 3 or 4 choices turned us down, then Ferentz is a respectable fall back. But no way in hell should he be our top choice.

The financials will be interesting if this is true. I cannot imagine we'd match his Iowa contract. Does anybody know how many years he has left on that deal?