3k buy-in, big stacks, out in 5 minutes...am I stupid or badluck

[DoGGz]

Wow, such a long bad beat post.

[MaverickUSC]

Pre-flop is really poor. In these deep stack events you do not want to be playing a huge pot with AQs OOP nor does it matter if you pick up 300 in dead limper money. You are either going to win a small pot or lose a huge one most of the time. This guy managed to put all his money in with a nut flush draw when you really should have had AA or QQ, not top two. I really thought you were going to get crushed by 77 - because that's the type of hand that's going to be calling you to try and bust you.

Devo

[DoGGz]

[ QUOTE ]
Pre-flop is really poor. In these deep stack events you do not want to be playing a huge pot with AQs OOP nor does it matter if you pick up 300 in dead limper money. You are either going to win a small pot or lose a huge one most of the time. This guy managed to put all his money in with a nut flush draw when you really should have had AA or QQ, not top two. I really thought you were going to get crushed by 77 - because that's the type of hand that's going to be calling you to try and bust you.

Devo

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree here STRONGLY. AQ is a huge favorite over the field, and just limping along is like giving up the hand. We know that everyone is likely to have a weak hand, so we should raise enough to limit the field. If they are willing to put in 10bbs while behind, then more power for us. We have to have the ability to read an oponents hand strength and not lose a big pot every time we don't have the best hand. If you can't do this, then you shouldn't even be playing a 'deepstack' tournament.

The problem is that most players SUCK at deepstacked poker, so they decide to just see this flop OOP and look for a monster. This is not the best way to plan the hand IMO.

EDIT: If the 300 'doesn't matter' then we shouldn't even play at all. Go grab dinner and come back in a hour or two when the blinds are higher.

[betgo]

You know after thinking about it, I don't like the preflop raise. It would be great if you had 100xBB, but you have 600xBB. With 600xBB, AQo is not the kind of hand you want to play a raised pot with, particularly OOP. You really want to be playing mostly pps, suited connectors and the like, and AK. Also, picking up the pot is not so important.

[gboro]

[ QUOTE ]
In these deep stack events you do not want to be playing a huge pot with AQs OOP nor does it matter if you pick up 300

[/ QUOTE ]

these small pots add up though. i probably just complete here being oop with that many limpers and no reads, but if i wanted to raise id be making it 800-1k to try and thin the field down. for 500 more they are all calling.

i just think that you don't get the cards enough to play abc all the time and wait around for the goods. you want to find spots to isolate the weak noobs in position and use your postflop advantage on them, even if it is for 2 or 300 at a time.

[DoGGz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In these deep stack events you do not want to be playing a huge pot with AQs OOP nor does it matter if you pick up 300

[/ QUOTE ]

these small pots add up though. i probably just complete here being oop with that many limpers and no reads, but if i wanted to raise id be making it 800-1k to try and thin the field down. for 500 more they are all calling.

i just think that you don't get the cards enough to play abc all the time and wait around for the goods. you want to find spots to isolate the weak noobs in position and use your postflop advantage on them, even if it is for 2 or 300 at a time.

[/ QUOTE ]

YES

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In these deep stack events you do not want to be playing a huge pot with AQs OOP nor does it matter if you pick up 300

[/ QUOTE ]

these small pots add up though. i probably just complete here being oop with that many limpers and no reads, but if i wanted to raise id be making it 800-1k to try and thin the field down. for 500 more they are all calling.

i just think that you don't get the cards enough to play abc all the time and wait around for the goods. you want to find spots to isolate the weak noobs in position and use your postflop advantage on them, even if it is for 2 or 300 at a time.

[/ QUOTE ]

A raise to 10xBB at 5 limpers is pretty large. I would have to be at the table to say whether a larger raise is better.

I think raising the limpers and trying to pick up the pot works better with 50-100xBB than 600xBB. With 600xBB, I would be more interested in flopping a big hand with a speculative hand.

[gboro]

true but i think you have to adjust your standard raise in level 1 of deep tournaments or the whole table comes in. i like to go 2.5-3x for the majority of the tournament but on ub for example where you start with 2500 and 5-10 blinds i rarely open for less than 5x.

[stephenNUTS]

Ouch!

It def. sucks to be busted in the first 5 minutes of a tournament ,but you kind of answered some questions yourself about this hand:
1. Raising OOP w/AQ to pick-up the blinds-dead money?
There is ONLY $300 in the pot in first level!
2.In a deepstack tourney,POT CONTROL,should be a major priority.Why re-raise the flop,and not get more info after the turn?
3.Once he PUSHES(and your read was correct,but remember he has a big hand himself),.....you have to decide if you are willing to go broke this early?
By saying you will then have "the chip lead" ,or "he couldnt have xxx" or "he Won his way in via SAT" is wrong!

Does the outcome SUCK?....Yes
Could you have played the hand better and NOT BUST?...DEF

The whole idea of a Deepstack Tournament is to be able to play poker after the flop,slow down,and NOT let ONE bad hand/bad beat eliminate you.Whether he got lucky,he made a terrible play,whatever is irrelevant,to the fact that you gambled and unfortunatly lost as a 2-1 FAV.

I must say though it SUCKS to drive 3hrs and be out in the first few hands,but that DRIVE alone would have slowed me down on that flop RE-RAISE I think.

Tournaments DO suck most-times however,but there is always another!

~stephen

*** another thing I realized after reading through your post,was why would you risk "a large part of your bank roll" anyway?

[betgo]

I am not sure if I like the raise preflop or the reraise on the flop. Both plays would be uberstandard if the stacks weren't so deep, so maybe OP didn't make the adjustments.

OP would be better off posting this hand step by step in the MTT strategy forum if he wanted real advice on it. Any analysis is colored by the facts that OP got allin almost a 2-1 favorite and OP busted out.

The 2/3 of the time OP wins the hand, you probably don't here about how he doubled up in level 1, accept maybe as in incidental in a trip report on how he won the tournament.