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| check/call |
   
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1 | 8.33% |
| bet/call |
  
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5 | 41.67% |
| bet/3b |
  
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5 | 41.67% |
| check/raise |
  
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1 | 8.33% |
| bet/fold (NITS) |
  
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0 | 0% |
| Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#1
11-29-2007, 10:56 PM
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$50NL, JJ Overpair OOP Getting Called Down
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com
UTG ($57.90) MP ($26.80) CO ($48.90) Button ($65) jb ($52) BB ($102.60) Preflop: jb is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">jb raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $2. Flop: ($5.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $4.25</font>, UTG calls $4.25. Turn: ($14) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $11.25</font>, UTG calls $11.25. River: ($36.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> No stats yet on villain my only read is he waited to post and topped off his stack immediately after going through the blinds. Is my only real choice here to check and see how he responds? 
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#2
11-30-2007, 01:43 AM
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Re: $50NL, JJ Overpair OOP Getting Called Down
[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com UTG ($57.90) MP ($26.80) CO ($48.90) Button ($65) jb ($52) BB ($102.60) Preflop: jb is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">jb raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $2. Flop: ($5.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $4.25</font>, UTG calls $4.25. Turn: ($14) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $11.25</font>, UTG calls $11.25. River: ($36.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> No stats yet on villain my only read is he waited to post and topped off his stack immediately after going through the blinds. Is my only real choice here to check and see how he responds? [/ QUOTE ] What I hate about these spots is that he will only raise you with better hands, but won't call or bet the hands you beat. And could possibly bluff us off the better hand. I think I'd chicken out and check and re-evaluate, but possibly think that a small bet on the river for value/block is the best line...small enough that he may still call with 22-77 (unlikely), and raise all those hands that beat us, but block a bluff attempt. But I hate giving that line away to a good player, which is the assumption I'm making, cuz I think a very good player could easily bluff raise us here. 44, JTdd, 67dd, and to a lesser extent, 88 and 99 seem the only hands to fit here.
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#3
11-30-2007, 01:56 AM
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Re: $50NL, JJ Overpair OOP Getting Called Down
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com UTG ($57.90) MP ($26.80) CO ($48.90) Button ($65) jb ($52) BB ($102.60) Preflop: jb is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">jb raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $2. Flop: ($5.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $4.25</font>, UTG calls $4.25. Turn: ($14) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $11.25</font>, UTG calls $11.25. River: ($36.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> No stats yet on villain my only read is he waited to post and topped off his stack immediately after going through the blinds. Is my only real choice here to check and see how he responds? [/ QUOTE ] What I hate about these spots is that he will only raise you with better hands, but won't call or bet the hands you beat. And could possibly bluff us off the better hand. I think I'd chicken out and check and re-evaluate, but possibly think that a small bet on the river for value/block is the best line...small enough that he may still call with 22-77 (unlikely), and raise all those hands that beat us, but block a bluff attempt. But I hate giving that line away to a good player, which is the assumption I'm making, cuz I think a very good player could easily bluff raise us here. 44, JTdd, 67dd, and to a lesser extent, 88 and 99 seem the only hands to fit here. [/ QUOTE ] I think youre on the right track Mike but I think a random player has a wider range than that. John - the pot is ~ your stack and your hand is probably near the middle of his range, so I think I'd check and let him bet. I'd probably call any bet because I think you pick off bluffs and some weaker made hands (T9 TJ maybe some other stuff) often enough to be profitable. * - This is my hunch and I havent run Poker Stove with any ranges so I might change my opinion.
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#4
11-30-2007, 05:48 PM
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Re: $50NL, JJ Overpair OOP Getting Called Down
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com UTG ($57.90) MP ($26.80) CO ($48.90) Button ($65) jb ($52) BB ($102.60) Preflop: jb is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">jb raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $2. Flop: ($5.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $4.25</font>, UTG calls $4.25. Turn: ($14) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $11.25</font>, UTG calls $11.25. River: ($36.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> No stats yet on villain my only read is he waited to post and topped off his stack immediately after going through the blinds. Is my only real choice here to check and see how he responds? [/ QUOTE ] What I hate about these spots is that he will only raise you with better hands, but won't call or bet the hands you beat. And could possibly bluff us off the better hand. I think I'd chicken out and check and re-evaluate, but possibly think that a small bet on the river for value/block is the best line...small enough that he may still call with 22-77 (unlikely), and raise all those hands that beat us, but block a bluff attempt. But I hate giving that line away to a good player, which is the assumption I'm making, cuz I think a very good player could easily bluff raise us here. 44, JTdd, 67dd, and to a lesser extent, 88 and 99 seem the only hands to fit here. [/ QUOTE ] I think this is solid and very few solid seeming players will bluff raise the river. If villain is loose enough and/or hero's image is insane like Devin then a lot of beaten hands will call a shove. If that's not the case I think villain has a pretty wide range that will call that blocking bet, but fold to a push. edit: In some circles hero might be able to think he can push and make the villain think "He's repping exactly a full house - so it's FH or nothing - I call with 55", but I don't think these are those circles.
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#5
12-01-2007, 12:48 AM
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Re: $50NL, JJ Overpair OOP Getting Called Down
Wow, thanks guys. All the responses to my JJ hand were great and very insightful looks into your thought processes.
fwiw here was the result: PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com UTG ($57.90) MP ($26.80) CO ($48.90) Button ($65) jb ($52) BB ($102.60) Preflop: jb is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">jb raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $2. Flop: ($5.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $4.25</font>, UTG calls $4.25. Turn: ($14) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $11.25</font>, UTG calls $11.25. River: ($36.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">jb bets $15</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $39.9</font>, jb calls $19 (All-In). Final Pot: $110.40 Results: jb has Js Jd (two pair, jacks and fours). UTG has 9h 9d (full house, nines full of fours). Outcome: UTG wins $110.40. My thought process on the hand was fairly close to Mike's thoughts in his response. I chose to bet/fold but then thought about it too long and ended up calling due to pot odds. (I know, sort of the reverse of planning a stop-and-go and then not going!) I believe bet/fold would be a good river line if we were deeper but I think we were too shallow here. I have to do a lot more thinking about all your responses.
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#6
12-01-2007, 02:32 AM
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Re: $50NL, JJ Overpair OOP Getting Called Down
I suck at cash, what do I do here I got into tourney poker so I didnt ever have to fold aces?
Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 4 Players LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter SB: $53.70 BB: $96.25 UTG: $31.30 Hero (BTN): $49.30 Pre-Flop: A  A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, SB folds, BB calls $1.50 Flop: ($4.25) Q 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q (2 Players)BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $3</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $6</font>, Hero calls $3 Turn: ($16.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">BB bets $7.50</font>, Hero calls $7.50 River: ($31.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">BB bets $39</font>
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#7
12-01-2007, 02:40 AM
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Re: $50NL, JJ Overpair OOP Getting Called Down
[ QUOTE ]
I suck at cash, what do I do here I got into tourney poker so I didnt ever have to fold aces? Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 4 Players LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter SB: $53.70 BB: $96.25 UTG: $31.30 Hero (BTN): $49.30 Pre-Flop: A A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, SB folds, BB calls $1.50 Flop: ($4.25) Q 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q (2 Players)BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $3</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $6</font>, Hero calls $3 Turn: ($16.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">BB bets $7.50</font>, Hero calls $7.50 River: ($31.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">BB bets $39</font> [/ QUOTE ] Reads?
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#8
12-01-2007, 03:08 AM
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Re: $50NL, JJ Overpair OOP Getting Called Down
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I suck at cash, what do I do here I got into tourney poker so I didnt ever have to fold aces? Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 4 Players LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter SB: $53.70 BB: $96.25 UTG: $31.30 Hero (BTN): $49.30 Pre-Flop: A A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, SB folds, BB calls $1.50 Flop: ($4.25) Q 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q (2 Players)BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $3</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $6</font>, Hero calls $3 Turn: ($16.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">BB bets $7.50</font>, Hero calls $7.50 River: ($31.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">BB bets $39</font> [/ QUOTE ] Reads? [/ QUOTE ] none really, didnt see him really do anything to this point, havent been on the table long.
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#9
12-01-2007, 07:36 AM
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Re: $50NL, JJ Overpair OOP Getting Called Down
[ QUOTE ]
I suck at cash, what do I do here I got into tourney poker so I didnt ever have to fold aces? Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 4 Players LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter SB: $53.70 BB: $96.25 UTG: $31.30 Hero (BTN): $49.30 Pre-Flop: A A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, SB folds, BB calls $1.50 Flop: ($4.25) Q 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q (2 Players)BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $3</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $6</font>, Hero calls $3 Turn: ($16.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">BB bets $7.50</font>, Hero calls $7.50 River: ($31.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">BB bets $39</font> [/ QUOTE ] fold river. edit: since some reasoning might be useful when someone all of a sudden bets pot or over-pot after minraising and 1/2 potting on earlier streets (esp. at low stakes but really at any level) its almost always for value, and hes not valuebetting anything you beat.
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