The rise of the fundamentalist right in America

[katyseagull]

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I know another poster on 2+2 who claims to be a Christian but doesn't believe that Hell is real. I have spent countless posts trying to show him he is wrong to no avail.

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I consider myself to be a Christian and I don't believe in Hell. I do not think that Hell needs to be taught in church. I don't think I've ever even heard it brought up at my church to be honest.

[daveT]

Christianity is a way of life. This involves following the nine commandments. Believing or not believing in Hell has nothing to do with proving it exists. I don't think that following just the first two commandments is a sign of a Christian, just some one who wants to take the sure bet, and not bother with what makes being a Christian a Christian.

Accepting Christianity is accepting it's legacy, it's worth, and it's problems. I am not comfortable with the entire belief system, nor am I comfortable identifying with that group of people. I do not believe that I should follow all of the teachings, although, by default, being what I think is a "good" person is similar to Christian leanings.

I know that sounded horrible.

[MrWookie]

Dave,

I'm curious as to the answer to your trivia question. Is it the Sabbath? If so, I disagree, and if I'm wrong, fill me in.

More significantly, though, I don't think that focusing on the two greatest commandments necessarily means you're only partially a Christian. From my point of view, it looks like all of the commandments, not just the best-known ten, AND their correct interpretations, follow from these two greatest commandments. To fully live out these two is itself a life commitment, and is itself living according to all the other commandments.

One thing I'll tell you, Dave, is I suspect that many of the Christian beliefs you take issue with may be human dogma, not the actual words of Christ. If you're taking issue with the words of Christ, that's your prerogative, but I'd caution everyone reading this, Christain and non-Christian, to be alert when discussing things about Christianity as to how much is right from scripture and how much is coming from imperfect human interpretations or even complete fabrications. I would argue that someone who accepts the teachings of Christ but rejects the man-made dogma that sometimes gets interwoven with them is every bit the Christian, if not moreso, than someone who accepts both scripture and dogma.

[Brad1970]

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Dave,

I'm curious as to the answer to your trivia question. Is it the Sabbath? If so, I disagree, and if I'm wrong, fill me in.

More significantly, though, I don't think that focusing on the two greatest commandments necessarily means you're only partially a Christian. From my point of view, it looks like all of the commandments, not just the best-known ten, AND their correct interpretations, follow from these two greatest commandments. To fully live out these two is itself a life commitment, and is itself living according to all the other commandments.

One thing I'll tell you, Dave, is I suspect that many of the Christian beliefs you take issue with may be human dogma, not the actual words of Christ. If you're taking issue with the words of Christ, that's your prerogative, but I'd caution everyone reading this, Christain and non-Christian, to be alert when discussing things about Christianity as to how much is right from scripture and how much is coming from imperfect human interpretations or even complete fabrications. I would argue that someone who accepts the teachings of Christ but rejects the man-made dogma that sometimes gets interwoven with them is every bit the Christian, if not moreso, than someone who accepts both scripture and dogma.

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Great point. It's really sad that so many nonbelievers get blinded by this & never give Christianity a chance.

[Enrique]

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Dave,

I'm curious as to the answer to your trivia question. Is it the Sabbath? If so, I disagree, and if I'm wrong, fill me in.

More significantly, though, I don't think that focusing on the two greatest commandments necessarily means you're only partially a Christian. From my point of view, it looks like all of the commandments, not just the best-known ten, AND their correct interpretations, follow from these two greatest commandments. To fully live out these two is itself a life commitment, and is itself living according to all the other commandments.

One thing I'll tell you, Dave, is I suspect that many of the Christian beliefs you take issue with may be human dogma, not the actual words of Christ. If you're taking issue with the words of Christ, that's your prerogative, but I'd caution everyone reading this, Christain and non-Christian, to be alert when discussing things about Christianity as to how much is right from scripture and how much is coming from imperfect human interpretations or even complete fabrications. I would argue that someone who accepts the teachings of Christ but rejects the man-made dogma that sometimes gets interwoven with them is every bit the Christian, if not moreso, than someone who accepts both scripture and dogma.

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Great point. It's really sad that so many nonbelievers get blinded by this & never give Christianity a chance.

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I don't know about Dave, but I can say, that many of the issues (for me) are believing in illogical things. Believing that God exists and that Jesus is God is very arbitrary. Why would it only convince people that live in certain geographical regions? Why does being born in a certain part of the world make you better than other parts of the world? If you are born in Asia or in the Middle East, you are very likely to be Buddhist, Hindu or Muslim, not Christian. It seems illogical (to me) that Christians are right and they are wrong, when both sides seem to give similar reasons on why they believe (I just feel it).

I think the teachings of Christ with respect to being tolerant and loving one another are good things, but I don't think that teaching that the Christian god is the true god is a good thing. I just can't accept the idea that someone goes to Hell because he doesn't believe the same things as me.

Actions are more important than belief in God or not. Being good to my neighbor, being a good son, helping people, being kind are things that are infinity times more important than praying or thinking about supernatural beings.

[Blarg]

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Dave,

I'm curious as to the answer to your trivia question. Is it the Sabbath? If so, I disagree, and if I'm wrong, fill me in.

More significantly, though, I don't think that focusing on the two greatest commandments necessarily means you're only partially a Christian. From my point of view, it looks like all of the commandments, not just the best-known ten, AND their correct interpretations, follow from these two greatest commandments. To fully live out these two is itself a life commitment, and is itself living according to all the other commandments.

One thing I'll tell you, Dave, is I suspect that many of the Christian beliefs you take issue with may be human dogma, not the actual words of Christ. If you're taking issue with the words of Christ, that's your prerogative, but I'd caution everyone reading this, Christain and non-Christian, to be alert when discussing things about Christianity as to how much is right from scripture and how much is coming from imperfect human interpretations or even complete fabrications. I would argue that someone who accepts the teachings of Christ but rejects the man-made dogma that sometimes gets interwoven with them is every bit the Christian, if not moreso, than someone who accepts both scripture and dogma.

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Great point. It's really sad that so many nonbelievers get blinded by this & never give Christianity a chance.

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I don't know about Dave, but I can say, that many of the issues (for me) are believing in illogical things. Believing that God exists and that Jesus is God is very arbitrary. Why would it only convince people that live in certain geographical regions? Why does being born in a certain part of the world make you better than other parts of the world? If you are born in Asia or in the Middle East, you are very likely to be Buddhist, Hindu or Muslim, not Christian. It seems illogical (to me) that Christians are right and they are wrong, when both sides seem to give similar reasons on why they believe (I just feel it).

I think the teachings of Christ with respect to being tolerant and loving one another are good things, but I don't think that teaching that the Christian god is the true god is a good thing. I just can't accept the idea that someone goes to Hell because he doesn't believe the same things as me.

Actions are more important than belief in God or not. Being good to my neighbor, being a good son, helping people, being kind are things that are infinity times more important than praying or thinking about supernatural beings.

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Very much agree. The choice of one God versus another is generally a matter of geography, not either conscience or even knowledge and understanding. The assertion that it is one's own religion that everyone should naturally accept is chauvinistic, willful, and blinkered. And, as history proves, often if not usually unsuccessful when not imposed by force or decree.

[daveT]

Yes, the missing commandment is the Sabbath. I do not know the exact book, but it is in the new Testament. I think it is in one of the Letters from John.

Enrique touched on a key thought there. I am not able to bring myself to damn someone else to Hell because they do not believe what I believe. I also agree that the average Christian, especially the Born Again, does not walk the way the Bible tells you to walk. Some of the most offensive and rudest people I have ever met are Christian and some of the nicest, down to earth people I have ever met were Satanists. Religion has nothing to do with the spirit of who you are, it is ultimately up to you to make the correct decisions in life.

I do not approve of the way Jesus is advertised. It bothers me that churches will tell poor people to not worry, put your faith in Jesus, and life will be better. Just pray. In the same breath, the minister will tell you that material things are not important, and that money has not value. Ten minutes later, the plate will be passed.

It is hard for me to accept that the Bible was written by some Holy Spirit. The Bible has been rewritten several times in the past centuries. I heard that the King James Bible was rewritten 8 times in the 1900s alone.

The best way to control and manipulate people is through fear and giving false knowledge. We seen this very concept applied to the Iraq War. The fear of going to Hell must be part of the teachings, because that fear allows you to walk a straight line, pay the tithe, etc.

I have a problem with the people who represent themselves as Christians but who obviously are not. The people standing on the street corner, screaming in my ear, breaking the toleration teachings.

I do not want to be part of an organization that hides child molesters, and refuses to punish those people.

The way Christians talk, I can go out, kill your child, repent in prison, and be ensured a spot in Heaven. Now, you have to look deep inside him or herself to find forgiveness for me.

Who is being less Christian here? Would any God, who knows the emotions of humans, really believe that he would be able to keep a tame Heaven with the parents and the murderers in the same place?

I don't buy it that you can go ahead and steal, lie, kill, and be a pure demon, repent, and then call yourself a Christian, guaranteeing yourself a spot in Heaven. Take the non-believer, who has done all he can do to help the world, cared for his children, and never even stole a candy bar while he may have been penniless and starving. Between the Sinner and Non Sinner, who goes to Heaven? The Sinner goes before the Atheist?

You, as a Believer, are going to tell me this is right, or even makes sense?

[Brad1970]

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I know another poster on 2+2 who claims to be a Christian but doesn't believe that Hell is real. I have spent countless posts trying to show him he is wrong to no avail.

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I consider myself to be a Christian and I don't believe in Hell. I do not think that Hell needs to be taught in church. I don't think I've ever even heard it brought up at my church to be honest.

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Jesus taught more about hell than he did heaven. This is a prime example of what I was talking about in my last post. Nobody wants to hear the whole truth, they want to cherry pick only the parts that they like.

[tarheeljks]

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I know another poster on 2+2 who claims to be a Christian but doesn't believe that Hell is real. I have spent countless posts trying to show him he is wrong to no avail.

[/ QUOTE ]

I consider myself to be a Christian and I don't believe in Hell. I do not think that Hell needs to be taught in church. I don't think I've ever even heard it brought up at my church to be honest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jesus taught more about hell than he did heaven. This is a prime example of what I was talking about in my last post. Nobody wants to hear the whole truth, they want to cherry pick only the parts that they like.

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he did? most of the scriptures that come to mind involve salvation or his proclamation of being divine

examples please

[Brad1970]

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I know another poster on 2+2 who claims to be a Christian but doesn't believe that Hell is real. I have spent countless posts trying to show him he is wrong to no avail.

[/ QUOTE ]

I consider myself to be a Christian and I don't believe in Hell. I do not think that Hell needs to be taught in church. I don't think I've ever even heard it brought up at my church to be honest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jesus taught more about hell than he did heaven. This is a prime example of what I was talking about in my last post. Nobody wants to hear the whole truth, they want to cherry pick only the parts that they like.

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he did? most of the scriptures that come to mind involve salvation or his proclamation of being divine

examples please

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There are lots of them in Matthew, Mark, & Luke. Revelation too.