Big call vs bigjoe2003, how bad is this really?

[suzzer99]

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I agree with people who said, [censored] this hand, fold and then push ATC on his ass until the bubble bursts.

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Because we all know bigjoe would never call with a marginal hand and the CL to just to make a statement.

[JDalla]

ok I just did a bunch of math for this with a calculator.
Fev = future equity (which I have due to 2 poor players with short stacks).

(1) Before the hand:
My equity: $699.8 + Fev
Joe's equity: $666.9 + Fev

(2) If I fold AKo.
My equity: $680.8 + Fev
Joe's equity: $707.5 + Fev

(3) I call AKo. Assuming I'm 60/40 vs. his range. (could be higher considering he folds his worst hands and probably doesn't push AA/KK.)

(3a) I win.
My equity: $939 + Fev
Joe's equity: 0

(3b) I lose.
My equity: $199.3
Joe's equity: $915.6 + Fev

Total: (.6)($939 + Fev) + (.4)($199.3) = $643.12 +~(.5)Fev
and Joe's: (.4)(915.6 + Fev) = $366 + (.4)Fev

Conclusion: I lose $37.68 and about half of my future edge by calling. Joe loses $341.5 and 60% of his future edge when I call him.

I'm willing to sacriface $37.68 equity to cost Joe $341.5, because in the future it will be correct for him not to push as light. If in the future he folds his J6 in this spot I either get a walk, or call a short stacks push, with the same 60/40 edge, a result which will probably raise my equity by more than the $37.68 I lost in this game.

[Chipchucker5]

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Snap call T9s and type "my bubble" into chat.

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I like this. Calling with AK here isn't going to send any kind of message to bigjoe that you're a "bubble protector." But calling with a hand like T9s that both figures to do well against his range and sends a message that you're not afraid to spite call can be very profitable in the long run, IMO.

As for your hand, it's definitely a fold in a vacuum.

[eurythmech]

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I agree with people who said, [censored] this hand, fold and then push ATC on his ass until the bubble bursts.

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Because we all know bigjoe would never call with a marginal hand and the CL to just to make a statement.

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Oh, did not know that. In that case, it's rather clear-cut.
Calling here has to be less -EV than the EV we lose from not being able to call ATC the next few hands.

[drzen]

Seems to me he's just pissed off that he had your range wrong. And that cost him more than $100.

[microbet]

JDalla, why are you assuming 60/40 when AKo is 65/35 vs random and you are suggesting his range might be worse off than ATC?

[Pudge714]

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Game theory's Nash Equilibrium applies to two player games. Calling here is -EV, but since Bigjoe pushes almost ATC here, I dont mind the call. Since he is a regular, and a good one at that, he will probably note the call, push tighter against you, and tell you he's sliding ATC.

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Zergum, please explain Game Theory's Nash Equilibrium and why it doesn't apply to more than two players.

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[Little John]

i think all of these neg ev calls between regulars is pretty silly on the bubble. all it really does is transfer equity from the two of you to the two other players (assuming they are not winning regulars).

i would just make sure i push ATC (or 90%) into joe every time. if he is not making neg ev calls than you should not either.

now, if you catch joe making neg ev calls vs you on the bubble then you should return the favor.

[spacegravy]

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i think all of these neg ev calls between regulars is pretty silly on the bubble. all it really does is transfer equity from the two of you to the two other players (assuming they are not winning regulars).



i would just make sure i push ATC (or 90%) into joe every time. if he is not making neg ev calls than you should not either.

now, if you catch joe making neg ev calls vs you on the bubble then you should return the favor.

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you spite call me on the bubble all day long.

[Little John]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think all of these neg ev calls between regulars is pretty silly on the bubble. all it really does is transfer equity from the two of you to the two other players (assuming they are not winning regulars).



i would just make sure i push ATC (or 90%) into joe every time. if he is not making neg ev calls than you should not either.

now, if you catch joe making neg ev calls vs you on the bubble then you should return the favor.

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you spite call me on the bubble all day long.

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i call you very light, but that is because i put you on ATC anytime you have the chiplead and i'm not 100% great with my bubble call ranges, thus stuck playing 60's.

but if you think i've made some big time neg ev calls vs 100% push range, pm or e-mail me them and i'll take a look, and i apologize in advance if they are really bad.

i'll check my database and see if i can find a few...