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#101
11-06-2007, 06:35 PM
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Re: False Flags and the Laws of Naval Warefare
[ QUOTE ]
REPEAT: ALL ISRAELI PILOTS HAVE CLAIMED THERE WAS NO FLAG AT ALL. NONE HAS SAID ANYTHING ABOUT FALSE COLORS. [/ QUOTE ] not only that but an israeli pilot was court martialed and jailed because he wouldn't fire on american ship and I'm pretty sure he said he saw US flag. 
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#102
11-06-2007, 07:32 PM
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Re: USS Liberty: Accident or Cover-up?
[ QUOTE ]
for example, kissenger, while not in power during it, was in power just after it, and today kissenger is still way powerful although not in official office(he was gonna head 911 commission, he admints he meets with president *weekly*, etc.) [/ QUOTE ] OMG! That means Bush is just as guilty as Kissenger. Oh wait, Kissenger wasn't guilty (at least not of the sinking of the Liberty), but he was in the administration after the one responsible, which is close enough, I guess, if you don't actually think about it. I think you've supported my point, which is that none of the people responsible for it, if indeed it was anything other than a "friendly fire" screwup, is in a position of power now, either in the US or Israel. Hell, most of them are dead, so, while it may be interesting from a historical standpoint, it just isn't that important any more.
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#103
11-06-2007, 08:03 PM
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Re: USS Liberty: Accident or Cover-up?
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Can someone fill me in on potential motives for Israel purposefully attacking the U.S.? Cui bono? [/ QUOTE ] Based on the one Chicago Tribune article that Iron linked to, if the accounts of Israeli pilots reporting the ship was American and asking for confirmation of orders to sink it are true (which I'm not convinced of, since apparently no recordings of these conversations exist, whether due to a coverup or because they never happened), the only somewhat plausible scenario I can think of is that the attack was initially a mistake and that some Israeli officer, when he realized what happened decided to get rid of the witnesses. I can't say I really like this hypothesis, but it's the only one I can come up with that makes even a little bit of sense. I still think it's more likely that the whole thing was a screwup.
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#104
11-06-2007, 08:12 PM
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Re: USS Liberty: Accident or Cover-up?
[ QUOTE ]
OMG! That means Bush is just as guilty as Kissenger. Oh wait, Kissenger wasn't guilty (at least not of the sinking of the Liberty), but he was in the administration after the one responsible, which is close enough, I guess, if you don't actually think about it. I think you've supported my point, which is that none of the people responsible for it, if indeed it was anything other than a "friendly fire" screwup, is in a position of power now, either in the US or Israel. Hell, most of them are dead, so, while it may be interesting from a historical standpoint, it just isn't that important any more. [/ QUOTE ] my point is that a very powerful person (kissenger) was in power 1-2years after the event, and is still very much "in the loop". how you can compare this to the main (1890?) is beyond me. in addition, nixon/kissenger at the very least didn't overturn the johnson decision to cover it up, which makes kissenger a direct participant.
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#105
11-06-2007, 09:44 PM
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Re: False Flags and the Laws of Naval Warefare
[ QUOTE ]
REPEAT: ALL ISRAELI PILOTS HAVE CLAIMED THERE WAS NO FLAG AT ALL. NONE HAS SAID ANYTHING ABOUT FALSE COLORS. [/ QUOTE ] So the Israelis did not see a 3'x 5' flag on a big ship in the heat of battle. Are you trying to make my argument for me? If the USA had communicated to Israeli they had a ship in the area, it would have likely prevented this accident...
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#106
11-06-2007, 09:51 PM
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Re: False Flags and the Laws of Naval Warefare
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they did the same thing in the lavon affair and they admitted it. so that blows your whole argument out of the water right there, so to speak. [/ QUOTE ] The Lavon affair shows that Israel will do machivellian things when they have reason to do so . In the Lavon affair it was to keep the Suez Canal for falling into Arab hands (a motive which I agree was worthy). So what was the motive for Israel to attack the Liberty? I don't expect you to answer this question because no one else on this foum has been able to do so. You can not provide a rational motive for their actions....other than it was an accident...
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#107
11-06-2007, 09:53 PM
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Re: False Flags and the Laws of Naval Warefare
[ QUOTE ]
not only that but an israeli pilot was court martialed and jailed because he wouldn't fire on american ship and I'm pretty sure he said he saw US flag. [/ QUOTE ] Given the fact that flying a false flag is legal....then the Israelis were justified in firing on a unidentified ship in a warzone. The USA should have communicated with the Israelis of this ship's location.
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#108
11-06-2007, 10:00 PM
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Re: False Flags and the Laws of Naval Warefare
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] REPEAT: ALL ISRAELI PILOTS HAVE CLAIMED THERE WAS NO FLAG AT ALL. NONE HAS SAID ANYTHING ABOUT FALSE COLORS. [/ QUOTE ] So the Israelis did not see a 3'x 5' flag on a big ship in the heat of battle. [/ QUOTE ] First of all, if you assume that, you are calling all the American veterans quoted in the Tribune article liars for testifying that they saw/heard radio transmissions that show the Israelis confirmed the ship as American. You've done that numerous times in this thread. As has already been mentioned in this thread, TWICE, an Israeli pilot testified to slowly circling the ship TWICE, before any shots had been fired, and not seeing any flag. So the "heat of battle" thing doesn't cut it. The weather was perfect and the flag was easily large enough to be seen (that was the whole purpose of the flag in the first place) from that distance under those conditions - all the Liberty survivors have testified to it. The fact of the matter is, either the Israeli pilots or the Liberty survivors are lying - the two testimonies directly contradict in many facets and are totally irreconcilable. These "oops my bad" defenses of Israel require the Liberty survivors, every one of them, to be lying. Which side do you think is lying and why? Felix in this thread reminds me of Joe Morgan (the baseball announcer for those unaware) who always wants to argue about the book Moneyball, even though he admittedly hasn't read it and doesn't even know who wrote it.
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#109
11-06-2007, 10:01 PM
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Re: False Flags and the Laws of Naval Warefare
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You can not provide a rational motive for their actions [/ QUOTE ] Neither can you for Charles Manson. Besides that, different people have vastly different opinions of what is "rational."
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#110
11-06-2007, 10:54 PM
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Re: False Flags and the Laws of Naval Warefare
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I don't expect you to answer this question because no one else on this foum has been able to do so. You can not provide a rational motive for their actions....other than it was an accident... [/ QUOTE ] that's simply not true. go to ussliberty.org or whatever, they discuss several theories. some advocated by chairman j.c.s. moorer and others, who undoubtably know more about stuff than us.
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