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  #1  
Old 10-21-2007, 01:15 PM
Tappy Tibbons Tappy Tibbons is offline
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Default Why Limit?

What do you think the advantages of learning to be a strong limit player are, as opposed to focusing on NL? What people do you think would do better in limit than in NL? Will learning limit poker improve the overall game of a solid NL player?

I'm not trying to be a troll here. With NL being all the rage these days, I think it would be beneficial to explain to potential subscribers why they should consider learning limit poker.
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  #2  
Old 10-21-2007, 02:40 PM
Joe Tall Joe Tall is offline
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Default Re: Why Limit?

The answer is really, "why not limit?" Most fundamentals of poker, like value betting, were built out of the limit poker model. Nearly all the concepts in Theory of Poker are written around limit poker. Limit is the base of most other forms of poker and if you want to improve your overall hand reading in any game, learning all the games is going to benefit you in the long run. Not only will this give you excellent game selection, your strength in NL Hold'em will improve too.
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  #3  
Old 10-21-2007, 02:48 PM
Entity Entity is offline
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Default Re: Why Limit?

[ QUOTE ]
What do you think the advantages of learning to be a strong limit player are, as opposed to focusing on NL? What people do you think would do better in limit than in NL? Will learning limit poker improve the overall game of a solid NL player?

I'm not trying to be a troll here. With NL being all the rage these days, I think it would be beneficial to explain to potential subscribers why they should consider learning limit poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally I'm of the opinion that people should expose themselves to as many forms of poker as possible to become a well-rounded player. If someone were to ask me what they should learn, I'd really have to talk to them individuall first to figure out what the best choice would be.

We teach limit because that's our home, so to speak -- but we also have videos on limit O8, PLO (I'm taking lessons in this right now), the limit to NL transition, 2-7, Stud8, and Razz. There are a lot of great choices for instruction out there, both in one on one coaching and in video instruction, and I really think people are doing themselves a disservice if they focus too narrowly on one form or another.

As far as LHE itself goes, it's a game that's been around for quite a while and has demonstrated a fair amount of staying power. While I do actually think that NLHE has a lot of potential right now as a very profitable opportunity, I think that anyone focusing too much on what games they will learn will be susceptible to their game being a flash in the pan, and runs the risk of losing long term EV by focusing too much in the meantime.

Rob
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  #4  
Old 10-21-2007, 09:03 PM
SNOWBALL SNOWBALL is offline
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Default Re: Why Limit?

[ QUOTE ]
The answer is really, "why not limit?" Most fundamentals of poker, like value betting, were built out of the limit poker model. Nearly all the concepts in Theory of Poker are written around limit poker. Limit is the base of most other forms of poker and if you want to improve your overall hand reading in any game, learning all the games is going to benefit you in the long run. Not only will this give you excellent game selection, your strength in NL Hold'em will improve too.

[/ QUOTE ]

My understanding is that most early poker games were no limit, table stakes. Of course, that wasn't the case for the old draw games and lowball games in california, but a ton of games on the texas circuit were no limit or pot limit, and most of european poker is pot limit or no limit also.
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  #5  
Old 10-23-2007, 12:32 AM
linuxrocks linuxrocks is offline
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Default Re: Why Limit?

[ QUOTE ]
The answer is really, "why not limit?" Most fundamentals of poker, like value betting, were built out of the limit poker model. Nearly all the concepts in Theory of Poker are written around limit poker. Limit is the base of most other forms of poker and if you want to improve your overall hand reading in any game, learning all the games is going to benefit you in the long run. Not only will this give you excellent game selection, your strength in NL Hold'em will improve too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you elaborate what a strong NL player (winner at 400NL and below) gains by learning limit? I feel like I should learn limit (specifically short-handed) and then turned off by not learning any thing and spew off. What exactly am I gaining?
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  #6  
Old 10-23-2007, 01:40 PM
Tryptamean Tryptamean is offline
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Default Re: Why Limit?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The answer is really, "why not limit?" Most fundamentals of poker, like value betting, were built out of the limit poker model. Nearly all the concepts in Theory of Poker are written around limit poker. Limit is the base of most other forms of poker and if you want to improve your overall hand reading in any game, learning all the games is going to benefit you in the long run. Not only will this give you excellent game selection, your strength in NL Hold'em will improve too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you elaborate what a strong NL player (winner at 400NL and below) gains by learning limit? I feel like I should learn limit (specifically short-handed) and then turned off by not learning any thing and spew off. What exactly am I gaining?

[/ QUOTE ]
this is exactly what happens to me every time i try to play NL, and I'm left asking myself the same question
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  #7  
Old 10-23-2007, 02:50 PM
Joe Tall Joe Tall is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2003
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Default Re: Why Limit?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The answer is really, "why not limit?" Most fundamentals of poker, like value betting, were built out of the limit poker model. Nearly all the concepts in Theory of Poker are written around limit poker. Limit is the base of most other forms of poker and if you want to improve your overall hand reading in any game, learning all the games is going to benefit you in the long run. Not only will this give you excellent game selection, your strength in NL Hold'em will improve too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you elaborate what a strong NL player (winner at 400NL and below) gains by learning limit? I feel like I should learn limit (specifically short-handed) and then turned off by not learning any thing and spew off. What exactly am I gaining?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you may need to analyze how you are going about making the transition (learning a new game). You have to be careful not to lose your foundation (NL) when headed into a different format. If you take the right steps, there will be no spewing off.
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  #8  
Old 10-26-2007, 11:41 AM
Lostwolf Lostwolf is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1
Default Re: Why Limit?

I seem to be coming at things from a different direction. I learned at NL/PL tables. I am trying to improve my statistical game by playing limit. So far it strikes me that the games are VERY different. It seems in limit I am playing the cards more so than the opponent and in NL very much playing the opponent first. I have more difficultiy reading opponents in limit, which seems wrong but is the case. Is my experience different than those going from limit to NL?
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  #9  
Old 10-27-2007, 11:07 AM
Cactus Jack Cactus Jack is offline
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Default Re: Why Limit?

Lostwolf, the DeucesCracked guys will be able to explain this much better than I, but let me give you my opinion anyway.

If you're having trouble reading your opponents--and I assume you mean hand-reading--it might be because you aren't as good at it as you think. No offense meant, as most of us aren't as good at it as we think. Learning/playing no limit masks how good you are, because often the winning ability is as much psychological as technical. That playing the player thing.

Limit requires you to make good decisions more often than no limit. Many decisions in no limit don't go beyond the flop. All in on the flop and run out the cards to see who's the winner. Obviously, this never happens in limit. You must learn to play the turn and river to be winners. Learning post-flop skills as required in limit hold'em will only enhance your no limit game.

They really are two different games on every level--beginner to advanced--but the skills required with fixed limit make no limit players better. I don't think the reverse is true.

Many "winning" no limit players are weak at the math part of the game. No winning limit player can be. Short term results in no limit can be far more deceiving than fixed limit.

Finally, the biggest difference is where no limit is more of a strategy game than a tactical game, fixed limit is more of a tactical game than a strategy game. Over the long term, I believe the one who has better tactics will overcome the one who is strictly a strategist. The one who can do both is a really scary player.

CJ
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  #10  
Old 10-27-2007, 07:26 PM
pig4bill pig4bill is offline
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Default Re: Why Limit?

The biggest difference to me seems to be luck. You need more of it to play limit. I can fold 3 orbits of rags in 1/2 NL and it only costs me 9 bucks. 15/30 limit costs $45 per trip. If I flop a set in NL I can push and every once in awhile a flush draw will fold. In LHE I'll stay in with my boat draw and get rivered by straights and flushes.
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