AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT

[fusting1234]

id say 99 out of 100 people that say they would report it/and or not use it if they woke up tomorrow and had a superuser account are lying, weither they know it or not

[slickmick777]

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ikestoys i`m just curious, if you were in aj greens seat at absolute would you use the superuser acct? just asking because i`m sure if you were a bit smater than he was (which i`m sure you would claim to be) i`m sure that it would be a simple ev equation, which is all that really matters to you eh.

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You sir are a piece of [censored] for even suggesting this. Some people's word means more to them than a $.

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you sir are charming

[pokerstudAA]

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seriously, the *affiliate manager*? that straw's a li'l thin.

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The only reason his named showed up was the repeated pictures of him. Once someone figure out who it was and their relationship to Absolute there was another name and face to a very faceless corporation. No one said he was involved just that he was a higher-up at Absolute. He certainly doesn't have to clear his name but I bet he could provide some interesting stories, information about how the company is structured, and let us know who is really in charge at Absolute. Thats all.

[TonyRoflmao]

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And as far as the alleged "Gaming Commission," it was created by the supposed "owner" of Absolute, the former chief of the very tribe whose authority AP and the commission derive its alleged authority from.

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People need to get their facts straight. KGC / Tokwiro / Joe Norton have a 100% interest in the brand/website Absolute Poker as it is the biggest client of their Data Co-location / Application Hosting Company Sixnet. This seems to be a technicality to allow them to operate in the US.

The real company that Scott Tom and AJ Green work ran is Absolute Entertainment, and that's where deposits go.

Finally, Absolute Entertainment seems to be owned by the holding company Blast Off Ltd., and possibly Riviera Ltd. is involved somehow on that level. These are the companies where you're likely to find the most fraud, tax evasion, and crime.

[N 82 50 24]

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People need to get their facts straight. KGC / Tokwiro / Joe Norton have a 100% interest in the brand/website Absolute Poker as it is the biggest client of their Data Co-location / Application Hosting Company Sixnet. This seems to be a technicality to allow them to operate in the US.

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I think you mean operate in Canada... but also it helps them to sit right on top of an internet backbone that helps them serve the US.

[Exsubmariner]

I started a thread with this post over in the lounge.

I am cross posting the content here.

Human relationships are tricky. I like to contemplate them and read about economics and study people in general.

Perhaps this concept is old hat to some, but for those who haven't considered it, I think it's important to get out into the open for discussion.

I haven't weighed in or followed the Absolute Scandal until recently because I feel it is a re-run of previous episodes where cheating was exposed in the online world. I no longer play online, mostly prompted to stop by these earlier episodes.

Anyone familiar with tournament poker should be familiar with this concept.

In poker, sometimes when a player with a short stack at the end of a tournament is all in, multiple other players will call and they will all check down. That's because one hand out against the all in player is not as good a chance of eliminating him as the multiple hands. That's implicit collusion. Multiple parties have an interest in something and don't exactly cooperate, but don't work against each other either.

The case of a cheating poker site is similar. Poker players who make their living online are dependent in a way on the poker site. The poker site needs to keep operating in order to provide a venue for the players to make their living. Therefore, if there is knowledge about the site cheating, it is in the best interest of the players to keep mum. The appearance of integrity is far more important than the integrity actually existing. Banking establishments and securities trading companies have been aware of this for centuries.

Those of you out there who have chosen poker as your living should keep in mind that you may value integrity, and may want it to exist at your favorite site, but at the same time, you can't cut off your nose in spite of your face.

Shutting down AP and depriving them of their reputation is not going to fix the problem of online cheating. Seeking relationships with sites as outside auditors will go light years beyond the mob witch-hunt every time there is a cheating episode.

A political organization similar to the PPA seems to be a viable solution from my view. I can envision an organization that watches the poker sites, collects hand histories and other data and analyzes it for such incidents, then assigns a rating to the sites based on how they handle the incidents. You have transparency in a situation like that, which is not what ganging up on a poker site gets you after a situation like this one. The poker site just shuts up and doesn't cooperate at all.

Bottom line, implicit collusion is either a problem or a solution between sites and players with regard to cheats.

[TonyRoflmao]

It seems like there's two things, Canadian servers are closer so the users so the site is more stable / fast.

Tokwiro owns Absolute Poker, an entity that seems to consist of nothing more than a brand / website, while the real operation is a separate offshore company. I'd conjecture that this is for legal purposes.

[El_Hombre_Grande]

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And as far as the alleged "Gaming Commission," it was created by the supposed "owner" of Absolute, the former chief of the very tribe whose authority AP and the commission derive its alleged authority from.

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People need to get their facts straight. KGC / Tokwiro / Joe Norton have a 100% interest in the brand/website Absolute Poker as it is the biggest client of their Data Co-location / Application Hosting Company Sixnet. This seems to be a technicality to allow them to operate in the US.

The real company that Scott Tom and AJ Green work ran is Absolute Entertainment, and that's where deposits go.

Finally, Absolute Entertainment seems to be owned by the holding company Blast Off Ltd., and possibly Riviera Ltd. is involved somehow on that level. These are the companies where you're likely to find the most fraud, tax evasion, and crime.

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My facts are straight, or at least they came straight from Mr. Norton's latest version of the truth. He claims to be the owner of the company that is 100% owner of "Absolute Poker." His bio says he founded the KGC, and he counts MIT as his accomplishment. To say that this is incestous is an understatement. As far as how the shell game plays out between Absolute and, ahem, Absolute, it doesn't make any difference in the least to me. It is a distinction without a difference.

[mooz3]

Keep the pressure on Oscar Hilt Tatum (and Family Members), as well Mark Seif. Keeping the pressure here will get results. You are getting laughed at by those involved with Absolute Poker. If you don't apply pressure to these two parties then everyone will continue to hide and not tell the truth. All of these thieves parents who allegedly bankrolled this illegal tax avoiding operation need to be investigated as well.

Oscar Hilt Tatum (is the pretty wife crying you thief? Why such a strong denial?)

Mark Seif (I will take you down....hahaha)

If you apply pressure in these two spots people will start singing. It is obvious Scott Tom doesn't care....these people do......and they are likely guilty of something.....definitely not innocent victims, so dig a little deeper until you get answers. If you don't make sure someone goes to jail for a long time then it will be a bigger joke than it already is.

[Dan Druff]

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"Okay, the reason they will not send AJ Green to jail (or even name him at this point)"

oops!

"Think about how much he knows about both the money flow, ownership, other scandals , etc within AP and UB. Lots of people with heavy interests in both of those either don't want those stories coming out or they don't want their dirt being told to law enforcement. Basically, he has them by the balls because he has their dirt. Described at the simplest level as blackmail."

Better not do any flying anywhere for a while! We need his picture, so if we see him getting on the same plane we can get off!

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So just how many other ways are players getting scammed, were the other AP props correct about getting cheated, is there more than the advertised money being taken off the top of the BBJ, is the blackjack rigged even more? To me it's kind of scary what other ways AP maybe cheating the users. For them to not sacrifice a VP (this would go a long ways to satisfying people) that could take a lot of heat off of them says that he must have lots of dirt on AP improprieties.

BTW someone in the know should have some clue if AJ Green was living the Scott Tom's house or if Scott Tom was actually in Pananma during these scams

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I do believe that a number of other improprieties have taken place at AP over the years. However, I make that statement without specific information on them.

Also, I need to say something else here...

My life's work cannot be devoted to pro-bono work outing AP and UB scandals. I've put a number of important business deals of my own on the backburner this past week. I did not do any of this scandal-related work for money, but, in the end, I am involved in poker to make money. I did all of this because I thought it was the right thing to do and would benefit poker in the long-term. I guess that's kinda self-interest depending on which angle you look at it from.

I have a bunch of businesses that I either run, co-own or am somehow involved in that make me a relatively significant amount. I've pissed off a number of my business partners with conversations such as the following:

Them: "Hey Nat, how's [such as such] progressing?"
Me: "Can't talk, later"
Them: "WTF, I thought we had a deal that you'd do X and Y?"
Me: "Sorry, AP stuff, can't talk, in convo"

I'm not going to continue to do that forever. At some point, I'll return to my other businesses. Unless someone wants to pay me to be a security consultant, I simply have to move back to what I do on a day-to-day basis.

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Nat raises a great point.

I, for one, have wasted an unspeakable number of hours on this, and I didn't do anywhere near the work that Nat has done.

It's too bad that we don't have an organization of poker players that we paid membership dues to that could do this sort of thing for us.

Wouldn't it be cool if there was this alliance of poker players that had, say, 800,000+ members, and each of them would pay $25 in dues to fund it? That organization would be really powerful and take care of crap like this, relieving the duty of unpaid volunteers like Nat and adanthar.

Oh, wait....