TD penalty ruling, was this correct?

[emsee gusto]

Cutoff moves all in, player in the BB asks for a count, out of turn. Player in the BB was given a penalty for acting out of turn. Mahem ensued.

Was the TD right or wrong in his ruling?

[onadraw]

Asking for a count is not action. I would not consider this to be "playing out of turn" deserving of a penalty. I do think it is poor etiquette and would ask the player to wait in the future though.

[psandman]

think a penalty here is a bit much.he player may be asking for a count to try to influence other players action, but the player may be thinking about his action and just wants a count for legitimate purposes.

I have never even heard of a player getting a penalty for this. If the TD thinks this is improper then a warning is probably a better solution.

[chucky]

Has the BB made other moves out of turn, or done other plays that has been disruptive. If this is the first time it should be a warning. If this is a repeat problem then a penalty might be warranted.

[Photoc]

[ QUOTE ]
Cutoff moves all in, player in the BB asks for a count, out of turn. Player in the BB was given a penalty for acting out of turn. Mahem ensued.

Was the TD right or wrong in his ruling?

[/ QUOTE ]

TD needs to go back to school to learn what "Action out of turn is" since check/bet/raise/fold/call are the only "actions" in a holdem game.

[emsee gusto]

[ QUOTE ]
Has the BB made other moves out of turn, or done other plays that has been disruptive. If this is the first time it should be a warning. If this is a repeat problem then a penalty might be warranted.

[/ QUOTE ]

BB was disruptive in a Tony G kind of way, but had no prior warnings for anything. I was just curious if this ruling was in the "the book" as I have never seen such a penalty given for this type of action before.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

This friggin' idiot was SO un-friggin'-believeably wrong he should be tied up, horse-whipped, then held while every player in the tourney kicks him square in the nuts. Either that or he should be forced to watch nancy friggin' grace. No, that's just TOO cruel. Just a nut-kicking.

You have to consider what harm a player's action causes before you cause their tournament chances harm by giving them a penalty. Many people have acted out of turn on many occasions and not been assessed a penalty. Usually it's accidental, and often out of turn action winds up being binding anyway. But asking for a count is not equivalent to acting on your hand. In fact, it's not action at all, it's just a question that anyone with cards may ask.

I've never heard of anything even remotely close to this situation. Sounds like you've got a penalty happy TD on your hands, bummer. KITN.

Al

[TexRef]

KITN for TD