Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it

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Doesn't prove anything, but sounds alot like how she was seen by previous poster. Someone who goes on tilt is not a bot. Hand histories should show this. Come on FT, cough em up.

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Yeah, this is my impression. Since there was, in fact, seizure of funds Full Tilt should have some iron-clad evidence. Also, since I'm sure Crazy Mike is at least partially responsible, I think someone (whether it be Mike, FT, or both) should provide some irrefutible evidence to Mike Haven not only for pokergirl's sake, but for online poker in general. I really hope this isn't a witchhunt on Crazy Mike's part.

[[Phill]]

You guys seem to be making an assumption that ive been thinking bout over the last couple hours - its that she hasnt been using a bot for very long - maybe a week or two before being locked out.

This would explain how she was on FTP and other sites for years without having problems and now is suddenly "found out". It would also expalin how she has been seen tilting in the past, and even could be used as part of a method to combat her tilting.

Not passing judgement just throwing it out there playing devils advocate.

[augie_]

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You guys seem to be making an assumption that ive been thinking bout over the last couple hours - its that she hasnt been using a bot for very long - maybe a week or two before being locked out.

This would explain how she was on FTP and other sites for years without having problems and now is suddenly "found out". It would also expalin how she has been seen tilting in the past, and even could be used as part of a method to combat her tilting.

Not passing judgement just throwing it out there playing devils advocate.

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not to mention, its probably in ftp's best interest NOT to confiscate her 47k. if she's a high stakes LHE player shes going to generate a lot more than that in rake in one year.

[MicroBob]

correct. She could conceiveably have been occasionally using a bot 3 years ago too.
Sometimes she is playing live and ends up prone to tilt. Sometimes she actually goes to bed and just lets the bot play for her.

Just because you have a bot doesn't mean you have to play it 100% of the time.
so occasionally tilting really doesn't prove she never used a bot ever. It MAY prove she wasn't using a bot at that exact moment though but that isn't exactly going to clear her.

This really is a difficult thing to prove to be honest.

Prove that I've never ever fired a gun or even held one:
"Well, I met Bob once and we chatted for a few minutes. I searched him and he definitely wasn't holding a gun at that moment. And he seemed to know absolutely nothing about guns. Therefore, I think it's probable that he is telling the truth that he has never even touched one!!"

[MasterLJ]

There seems to be a correlation between being accused of wrong doing, and playing HU LHE.

[DMoogle]

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not to mention, its probably in ftp's best interest NOT to confiscate her 47k. if she's a high stakes LHE player shes going to generate a lot more than that in rake in one year.

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I might be completely wrong, but I think it wouldn't be quite that high. She's a HU player, and they cap the rake on HU tables at $.50 per pot. So the fact that it's high stakes shouldn't make a difference on rake, especially compared to a 6-max player.

Although I really have no idea how much rake she generates, you're probably right that it's -EV long term to lock her account and "steal" her money (which they said they were planning on using to reimburse those who she has played against).

I'm looking forward to reading Mike Haven's opinion on the evidence that he has had presented to him.

[[Phill]]

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There seems to be a correlation between being accused of wrong doing, and playing HU LHE which Gatorade/Mike plays.

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FYP for ya.

Augie, its easy to come up with a scenario whereby not banning her could cost more than keeping her (serious hypertheticals here).

Basically, if someone, or a group of people, were to lobby sites to remove certain winning players on the grounds of them cheating; then if the threat of bad publicity was great enough a site could be forced to bow to the percieved expert skill of said person or persons.

[RikaKazak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
not to mention, its probably in ftp's best interest NOT to confiscate her 47k. if she's a high stakes LHE player shes going to generate a lot more than that in rake in one year.

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I might be completely wrong, but I think it wouldn't be quite that high. She's a HU player, and they cap the rake on HU tables at $.50 per pot. So the fact that it's high stakes shouldn't make a difference on rake, especially compared to a 6-max player.

Although I really have no idea how much rake she generates, you're probably right that it's -EV long term to lock her account and "steal" her money (which they said they were planning on using to reimburse those who she has played against.

I'm looking forward to reading Mike Haven's opinion on the evidence that he has had presented to him.

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QFT

a.) $47K isn't that much to tilt

b.) limit players even just heads up limit players generate GOOD amounts of rake, way over $47K in a 12 month timespan.

$100 says she was a bot...and I'll lay 2:1 [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[PoorLawyer]

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I think you might overestimate how easy something like a California court hearing on this matter would be.
FT isn't in the U.S. I don't know how possible it is but it doesn't seem terribly realistic.

Hopefully her lawyer may have an idea or two.

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the only issue here is the legality of poker. It would be fairly easy to serve FT...as for collecting, it depends on where they have their assets. There are plenty of procedures in place to collect on foreign judgments in most countries.

Maybe FT should move all their assets to N. Korea to become judgment-proof against sillysal [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[mbpoker]

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If they were a PR firm like Stars, they would have refunded the money and gone out of their way to avoid a situation like this in the first place (including appeasing the cheaters or giving them a warning first so they can hide what they're doing). This whole situation is going to cost them more than 50K in business and they knew that from the start, but stuck to their guns.

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Stars just confiscated $1.2M so they don't exactly refund money to cheaters.

However the point that many in this thread made about how the case was handled not whether the final decision was right or wrong (which is not clear yet).