Overcars again...AQs

[KaatzMeow]

I am just struggling with how to play overcards, especially HU.

Villain is OTB 14.46/8.57/2.03/1800+ hands and 4+ BB/100
The game is semi-tight with a lot of O/Raises and blind stealing if the opportunity presents itself.

Hero in UTG+1 holding A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero open raises, Villain 3 bets, hero calls.

Flop: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero checks, Villain bets, Hero?

I cannot see donking after being 3 bet preflop but a C/R seems like spewing. A call getting just enough odds if my Q getting paired is a winner but I doubt it.

[kerowo]

So is this a HU question or a steal question or an overcards question?

If it is a steal question and you think he is FOS call him down.

If it is a HU question call him down, you are still in good shape unless he only 3-bangs AK+, which is really tight for HU.

If it is an overcards question you should be c-betting this flop when there are less than 3 people in the pot, as played peel the turn and c/f anything that puts a 3-flush out there or doesn't improve your hand.

[KaatzMeow]

I don't think it is a steal since for the session I was 10/10/4 for 30 hands and if he data mined me while I was playing 16/9/1.7.

Villain 3 bets me after I open raise so I have to put him on TT+ AQs+ AQ+ but have no note on him for his 3 bet range.
I am just getting the right odds for OC but I am not confortable saying I have 6 outs, more like 3 which is a fold if I am behind. I think I am more behind than ahead.

Do you think I should CB even though I just called Villain's 3 bet?

[Second Toughest]

Think it depends how many players are at the table. The fewer there are the more inclined I am to call down UI.

[Gib]

Overcars?

[Mitke]

So this is full ring and Villain 3-bet your UTG+1 raise from the button and your stats look TAGgy.

Well, I seriously doubt he is playing back at you with a worse ace.

He could have isolated you with a pp like 77-99. However, I think judging from his almost nitty stats you're big a dog vs. his range.

It's not a very big pot and I see reverse implied odds there.

Folding feels weak and could be exploited but probably wouldn't be bad.


If I want to make a stand vs his AK/AQ range I'd c/r and lead the turn representing a 88-JJ and be done with hand if he still plays back at us.

AK - 12 combos
AQ - 9
= 21

AA - 3
KK - 6
QQ - 3
JJ - 6
TT - 6
= 24

[bubbleboy2008]

Why would you want to donk or check-raise with your overcards? He will never fold a better hand, so there is no sense in bluffing. There is no option but to check and call here.

[Mitke]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you want to donk or check-raise with your overcards? He will never fold a better hand, so there is no sense in bluffing. There is no option but to check and call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I said that if I want to make a stand vs his AK/AQ range I'd c/r flop (not donk it) and lead the turn representing a made hand like 88-JJ.

I think that would look consistent from the Villain's point of view. We just called his 3-bet preflop. Then c/r on a flop that is sure to miss a big part of his 3-bet range (apart from the pocket pairs of course).

If he now happens to hold AK/AQ (if either folds we benefit nicely, btw), he has a difficult call to make on the turn getting 6.75:1 with his overcards - which may or maybe not both be live (we might be screwing him with AA/KK or hold QQ, from his point of view, and there's the FD too). I'm not expecting him to fold a better hand on the flop to a c/r.

The downside of choosing this line is that the Villain could also think we do this as a semibluff with a FD (but I think this is not as likely as it'd be if this hand was shorthanded), he could have a made hand, or in fact the FD.

I'd think a Villain with those stats would raise AA-QQ on the turn the latest (to protect vs a FD), but just might sometimes go to call-down mode with TT-JJ that we have 6 outs against anyway.

If we get to river UI with this line and Villain hasn't raised I c/f as I believe him being on a FD hand that he'd also fold to a river bet is too small (A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]+). Villain's decision to go to showdown happens on the turn.


And I'm not saying this is the best option nor default option in this spot - but it is an option that can be justified and might be a good play sometimes to mix it up and especially if the Villain is tight-weakish (this Villain doesn't look weakish).

[Mitke]

About calling down, Villain's possible combos against OP's estimate of his 3-bet range.

AK - 12
AQ - 9
AA - 3
KK - 6
QQ - 3
JJ - 6
TT - 6

We have:
6 outs vs. JJ and TT = 12 combos
3 outs vs. AK, QQ, KK = 21 combos

We are almost dead vs. AA = 3 combos
And we chop vs. AQ = 9 combos

Calling down UI in this light seems light. Somebody could Stove the equity if he feels like it.

Naturally the picture might look a bit different if we add hands like AJ or KQ we actually dominate already or go down to 88 in pocket pairs or something.

[LukeSLTS]

Normally, I would fold this to a villain as tight as the one here. If you feel his 3betting range here is wider than AQ+ and 88+ or so then go ahead and check raise the flop/lead the turn. If you get raised at any point you can safely fold. Whether to bet the river is a tough decision.