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  #1  
Old 11-28-2007, 01:51 AM
DavidSRT DavidSRT is offline
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Default Interesting flop situation with AT

This is a very loose table. The three bettor was 29.7 vpip and fairly passive post flop, no stats no reads on the SB his second hand at the table.

Full Tilt 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

My main question is how you play the flop. I can't remember being in this type of situation before. Someone donk into two people who have both raised ahead of him. Meanwhile I flopped a monster, in the middle. I considered smooth calling and inducing a raise from the CO. He was fairly passive though post flop.

I chose to raise, he didn't come along anyway, but...

Would you have done it the same way? I was at a loss during this hand.
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  #2  
Old 11-28-2007, 01:54 AM
Xylocain Xylocain is offline
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Default Re: Interesting flop situation with AT

you can also watch me hang my head in shame.

Looks good to me.
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  #3  
Old 11-28-2007, 01:54 AM
Aaron W. Aaron W. is offline
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Default Re: Interesting flop situation with AT

Definitely raise the flop and hope CO holds AK.

Against an unknown SB, I'd consider calling his 3-bet and raising on the turn.
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  #4  
Old 11-28-2007, 01:55 AM
Aaron W. Aaron W. is offline
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Default Re: Interesting flop situation with AT

[ QUOTE ]
you can also c-r the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

X - Hang your head in shame.
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  #5  
Old 11-28-2007, 01:59 AM
knockonwood knockonwood is offline
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Default Re: Interesting flop situation with AT

I think the flop is close between a call down and cap. Looks like he has over played AK, AQ the way the hand has gone down.

Also, smooth calling to induce a raise from CO isnt really that good an idea as he basically has to have AK, AQ, AJ for it to work. If he has you beat you going to spew and he will probably fold (as in the hand) when he has KK, QQ, JJ.
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  #6  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:00 AM
tyler_cracker tyler_cracker is offline
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Default Re: Interesting flop situation with AT

aaronisrite.
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  #7  
Old 11-28-2007, 02:56 AM
00Snitch 00Snitch is offline
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Default Re: Interesting flop situation with AT

I play it exactly the same, but I never know when to call the flop with the intention of raising a turn and imo, most of the time, the difference is small. I think around 0.5bb. Or we consider 0.5bb to be big? I guess it might take you 50 hands to earn 0.5bb in the long run.

Anyway...Take this hand for example.

When you call the flop 3-bet and raise the turn...

If SB calls your turn raise and a river bet, you get 4.5bb. Nice.
If SB folds to your turn raise, you get 2.5bb. Not bad.

If you cap the flop and get a bet on each street, you get 4bb. Nice.
If you cap the flop and SB c/f the turn, you gain 2bb. Not bad.
I guess SB might fold to the cap, where you will only get 1.5bb. Meh.



Now there is a slight chance you are behind...

If you raise the turn and SB 3-bets, you are now getting ~13:1 with maybe 4 outs (his most likely hands here would be TT/55, wighted slightly to the 55, which you have 4 outs against), so you kinda have to call. If you don't improve on the river, you kinda have to call too because you are still getting like 15:1 with top-two pair. In this case it has cost you 5.5bb to showdown a loser. That hurts.

Yes I know that is not all that likely. Whatever, I'm just writing out loud.
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  #8  
Old 11-28-2007, 05:18 AM
neurotiq neurotiq is offline
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Default Re: Interesting flop situation with AT

Looks fine to me. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2007, 05:49 AM
Mitke Mitke is offline
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Default Re: Interesting flop situation with AT

* g *

Nice hand.

Slowplaying with two pairs is not my thing, in general. If your read was that CO is passive then your raise was good. I think CO still would have hanged around with AJ+ most of the time. He probably mucked JJ-KK.

As for the flop cap. Villain looks like he has either AA, TT, A5, another AT or 55 (T5 not likely).

Losing:
AA = 1 combo (would have capped preflop)
TT = 3
55 = 3 (not a common "3bet cold call hand" to 4-3 way pot, even from SB)
= max 7

Winning:
A5 = 6 (not very likely to cold call 3-bet either)
AK/AQ/AJ getting out of line = max 24

Splitting:
AT = 4

In this light your line looks good. Moreover, you're in position and will have some control over how much bets go in before showdown.
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  #10  
Old 11-28-2007, 05:56 AM
Mitke Mitke is offline
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Default Re: Interesting flop situation with AT

[ QUOTE ]
Definitely raise the flop and hope CO holds AK.

Against an unknown SB, I'd consider calling his 3-bet and raising on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this. SB's range has to be weighted towards AK-AJ and he will lead with them most of the if we just call the 3-bet.
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