No Country For Old Men

[jester710]

Also, as far as the various character's capabilities, the book says that Harrelson's character was a special forces colonel in Vietnam and hints that Chigurh was too. Brolin was also a Vietnam veteran, and Jones was a WWII hero (I think I said Vietnam in an earlier post). So these people aren't necessarily just dumb hicks.

[GTL]

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Boy, I didn't see any of the people in No Country as smart or capable. Anton is simply a robotic killer who gets no pleasure out of life. Brolin's character is not smart, he is only motivated by trying to keep the money. He ends up as he would have been expected to end up. Woody Harrelson's character is an idiot--he sees the briefcase but doesn't get it and ends up with Anton walking up the stairs right behind him. The guy in the office building ends up the same way. Tommy Lee Jones is a small-town lawman, similar to Macdormand's character in Fargo, but without the intelligence or drive of the heroine in Fargo; he fails to get his man. Brolin's wife is unable or unwilling to help him and her mother is a bigotted loudmouth.

I do agree that Fargo was done more as a black comedy than No Country. Buscemi, MacDormand, and Macy are good comic actors and played their roles accordingly in Fargo. There was nothing like that in No Country, just a few funny lines.

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I have to disagree with your opinion that the characters in No Country were not smart or capable. I'll give a few examples that were in the movie (the book spends a lot more time highlighting what the individual characters are good at and different areas of expertise)

Chigurh is injured by moss when they have a firefight in the hotel across the mexican border. Afterwards Chigurh is badly injured and is incredibly resourceful. He creates a diversion (blows up a car) and then steals the medical supplies he needs to patch up his bullet wound. He patches himself up, on his own, in a hotel room. This is a clear sign of intelligence. He understands medicine. This also proves that he is capable. Being able to clean a bullet wound and then suture the wound is not an easy task and takes expertise.

Moss has a very deep skill set as well when it comes to survival, weaponry, and street smarts. He manages to stay a step ahead of Chigurh the whole movie. Chigurh does not kill Moss. Many people may not realize this. In my opinion, Moss' mother in law is responsible for getting him killed. You can take this how you want. He is very good with guns, and the only person who survives a gunfight with chigurh. etc... etc...

The Sheriff is very smart. I have no idea why you see him as unintelligent. From the very beginning he realizes that Chigurh is a sociopath. He understands the trouble Moss is in and he does everything he can to help him. This is why he doesn't focus on the crime scenes and instead focuses on Moss' wife. He knows that the only way to find Moss will be through his wife. In the end, he does get the info from the wife. He is a good cop. There is no way to catch or stop Chigurh. In my opinion, Chigurh is a god like being, unstoppable.

Maybe I'll post more, but if you still disagree with me we're probably at an impasse and arguing further won't get us anywhere.

You are not supposed to necessarily like any of the characters in No Country. It's a tragedy, and each character who dies is responsible for their own death in some way. The story is about why people make choices that lead to tragedy. If you think about the movie, none of the choices that lead to tragedy for Moss or his Wife had to do with the money.

[andyfox]

Good stuff, thanks.

You're right, the characters are certainly not sloppy and dimwitted, like the Fargo characters. They showed resourcefulness. Moss was thoughtful, but in the end not thoughtful enough. None of the characters were smart enough to succeed.

The only thing with which I definitely disagree is your last sentence. Surely his desire for the money was what did Moss and his wife in. Please explain why you think otherwise.

Thanks again.

[andyfox]

Funny, I suspected there might have been some Vietnam stuff in the novel that was left out of the movie when the border guard asks Moss if he was in 'nam.

[bigscore]

how is American Gangster not on your top 5?

[GTL]

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Good stuff, thanks.

You're right, the characters are certainly not sloppy and dimwitted, like the Fargo characters. They showed resourcefulness. Moss was thoughtful, but in the end not thoughtful enough. None of the characters were smart enough to succeed.

The only thing with which I definitely disagree is your last sentence. Surely his desire for the money was what did Moss and his wife in. Please explain why you think otherwise.

Thanks again.

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A lot of people will miss this and I missed it the first time I read the book. This is a mild spoiler, so don't read this if you are planning on seeing the movie guys. <font color="white">When Moss takes the money and goes back to his wife no one knows about it. Neither the drug sellers, buyers, nor Chigurh have any idea that Moss took the money. The transponder only works at close range, and he might have been found later, but that is a big maybe. Moss goes back to the scene and has to abandon his truck to escape. His truck gives away his identity and seals his fate. Moss goes back the second time to bring water to the wounded Mexican. He tells his wife, "I'm fixin to do something dumber than hell, but I'm going to do it anyway." He can't leave the man to die. He just can't do it. This is what gets him into the mess. This is also how he is different than the sheriff. The book ends with the sheriff telling a story of leaving his men behind to die in the heat of battle. There is more to it than this, of course. But in my mind, the money isn't what gets Moss killed, it's the moral code that he follows that won't allow him to leave a man to die. </font>

I know you were expecting me to wax philosophical on why it's not about the money. But there is actually tangible evidence that it wasn't the money that got him into the mess. Of course it's just my opinion. I like talking about movies and books I enjoy, so keep asking away.

To your point about none of the characters being smart enough to survive. This is a hallmark of all tragedies. I'm an intelligent person myself and I enjoy tragedies because they are full of brilliant people, good and bad, who will never reach a happy ending. Just makes for great art.

[GTL]

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Funny, I suspected there might have been some Vietnam stuff in the novel that was left out of the movie when the border guard asks Moss if he was in 'nam.

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The book opens the same way as the movie, with Moss hunting. The book goes into incredible detail about Moss' rifle and the way he is using it. It becomes immediately clear that Moss was a sniper and this is a thread throughout the book. I believe all the major male players are vets.

[unspider]

I agree with the other posters about the intelligence of these characters. Not necessarily book smart, but very very resourceful.

I loved the dialogue, and the suspense didn't let up for the majority of the film.

The ending left me wanting me more (perhaps I should read the book based of this thread), but I think the point I got out of it was what everything is changing, all the time.

There are no happy resolutions because 10, 20 years from now, some other horrific crimes will happen that people will shake heads on and wonder how it got so bad.



Question: what was happening when the sheriff was looking at the keyhole in the last motel, and anton was in the shadows inside, waiting for the door to open? I realize that it was most likely a flashback, so does this mean that anton killed moss?

[CharlieDontSurf]

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I agree with the other posters about the intelligence of these characters. Not necessarily book smart, but very very resourceful.

I loved the dialogue, and the suspense didn't let up for the majority of the film.

The ending left me wanting me more (perhaps I should read the book based of this thread), but I think the point I got out of it was what everything is changing, all the time.

There are no happy resolutions because 10, 20 years from now, some other horrific crimes will happen that people will shake heads on and wonder how it got so bad.



Question: what was happening when the sheriff was looking at the keyhole in the last motel, and anton was in the shadows inside, waiting for the door to open? I realize that it was most likely a flashback, so does this mean that anton killed moss?

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Ya I got a little confused with this in terms of did he leave once the sheriff went into the bathroom. Did he go out the window in the bathroom cuz they seemed to focus on the open latch.

[jester710]

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Ya I got a little confused with this in terms of did he leave once the sheriff went into the bathroom. Did he go out the window in the bathroom cuz they seemed to focus on the open latch.

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This scene was not a flashback, at least not in the book. Jones goes back to the motel on a hunch, because of the conversation he has with the El Paso sheriff about how brazen Chigurh is in returning to crime scenes. In the book, he enters the room and Chigurh is out in the parking lot in his pickup. The significance of the grate and screws were that they confirmed to Jones that Chigurh had been there. In the book, Jones spends several minutes getting up the courage to just walk outside so he can drive off and radio for backup. In the movie, I don't know if Chigurh leaves while Jones has his back turned or just waits behind the door.

And no, Anton didn't not kill Moss. The Mexicans who found out where Moss was going killed him in a big shootout and stole the money. In the book, though, Chigurh ends up with the money, so it's safe to assume he caught up with the Mexicans.