$50: JJ wtf turn spot

Chargers In 07 · #1 10-11-2007, 02:29 AM

Villain is 44/17/3.8 over 45 hands. I've been playing 20/10 over the same sample.

Preflop is standard obv.
What should I do on the flop if I was raised there?
What should I do if the turn wasn't a diamond and <a T?
As played what is my plan on the turn?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($71.05)
BB ($27.85)
UTG ($25)
UTG+1 ($11.45)
MP1 ($18.70)
MP2 ($62.50)
CO ($54.90)
Button ($33.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG (poster) checks, 3 folds, CO raises to $1.5, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6, 1 fold, UTG folds, CO calls $4.50.

Flop: ($13) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $9, CO calls $9.

Turn: ($31) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero thinks this sucks.

I'mVeryBusy · #2 10-11-2007, 03:15 AM

C/F - and it does suck - and what if lighting struck your house at that exact moment and you lost connection - WHO THE EFF CARES......don't post what if questions.....

Chargers In 07 · #3 10-11-2007, 03:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
what if lighting struck your house at that exact moment and you lost connection - WHO THE EFF CARES......don't post what if questions.....

[/ QUOTE ] wouldn't want to try to learn something by posting a hypothetical question, would we?

Kevroc · #4 10-11-2007, 03:52 AM

I dont think preflop is so standard, am I alone in this?

I think my default would be to flat call and see what the flop brings. Maybe reraise PF about 10-20% of the time.

I'mVeryBusy · #5 10-11-2007, 04:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think preflop is so standard, am I alone in this?

I think my default would be to flat call and see what the flop brings. Maybe reraise PF about 10-20% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree on this point. And asking what if questions can lead to so many answers. Its not what if - its about the present situation. If you want a hypothetical answer - ask a hypothetical question - ur asking for a real answer and at the same time asking a hypothetical question - these are 2 seperate posts....

Fiasco · #6 10-11-2007, 04:56 AM

I, for one, am OK with multiple questions.

1) Is this the standard reraise people are doing PF OOP? 4x? I normally do 3x. Id like to see this discussed, maybe it merits its own post.

2) If raised on the flop I think Im probably willing to put the rest in. Hard for you to have less than 9 outs, and pretty easy for you to still be ahead. Also villain has Laggy stats.

3) Id commit on the turn if it was a small non-diamond. Slightly less than pot bet, maybe $28?

4) The turn is a check and youre probably folding to any sort of sizable bet. You arent committed yet (though its close) and villain's most likely draw just got there.

This is one of the interesting planning hands around committment situations where I think some of the earlier bet sizing may have effected things. Not really sure what you should have done differently though, maybe overbet the flop?

osh · #7 10-11-2007, 08:50 AM

Not standard, imo. I agree with flat calling. On that board, bet out 2.5 then...

Turn is sooooo ugly.

AlexB182 · #8 10-11-2007, 08:56 AM

I raise PF with JJ most of the time, especially against of which range I'm def ahead.
Flop is standard as you said.
If turn bricks I fire again for several reasons:
1) board still is very drawy
2)OOP - - check sucks
3)villain is loose and might even come along with AT, KT, 99 stuff.
As played I guess I c/f but I am by no means sure about that, you might even be in front here with your J high flush. Only 3 cards in the deck that beat us here and he could have pretty much everything.

AlexB182 · #9 10-11-2007, 08:59 AM

Flat calling with JJ with such a laggish villain? You have to put pressure on those guys when you do have a hand, by only flat calling what are you hoping for? Do we autofold with an overcard on board if he bets (what will happen pretty often)? Do we start setmining with JJ?

Fiasco · #10 10-11-2007, 09:18 AM

can the people who dont want to reraise preflop explain their thinking to me please?
1) Villains PFR is 17, probably much higher in blind steal situations
2) Were going to be OOP throughout the hand.

So you want to flat call and try and outplay/outguess a LAG OOP? Why?