What makes the US Govt trustworthy?

[bkholdem]

As some of you may know I converted to ACism not to long after coming to the politics forum and reading the posts and arguments of the prominent AC posters here. I did not trust the government then and I do not trust the government now.

As I have been expressing in the drug prohibition thread I recently started, this is an example of creating and carrying out a war on it's own people (under the guise of 'helping them').

I periodically read posts like "why don't you love it or leave it", etc.

What I want to know is why do you trust the US government? Why should I trust the US government? And please do not use ancient history, I want to know why government as it exists is trustworthy. I am curious if people can come up with convincing reasons.

[mosdef]

I don't think you can ever trust anybody. Everybody acts in their own best interest. Some people are nice people whose "own best interest" includes helping and giving because that suits them, and those people are great to have around. But overall I really don't trust anybody to do anything, I try to understand what they perceive to be best for them and expect them to do that.

Sorry, what was your questions again? Oh yes, the U.S. government. A group of strangers with the authority to set law certainly can't be and ought not to be just "trusted" to do it right. You're doomed to be disappointment if you take that route.

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you can ever trust anybody. Everybody acts in their own best interest.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly why you can trust people.

In a society where trading is less efficient in acquiring resources than theft, personal interests conflict and you have competitive violence. In a society where trading is more efficient (a wealthy society), personal interests align and you have constructive capitalism.

I bought a hot dog from a hot dog stand the other day. The hot dog vendor could have given me a very poor quality or deadly hotdog, but he did not. If he gives our crappy hot dogs, no one is going to give him business, and action might be taken against him. He is acting in his own best interest. That is why you can trust hot dog vendors.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you can ever trust anybody. Everybody acts in their own best interest.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly why you can trust people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I think we're getting into a non-productive semantics argument which I am guilty of starting so I hope this ends it:

I agree completely with your analysis.

My interpretation of "trust" is that when someone tells me they'll do something I can rely on them to do it because I can rely on them to keep their word.

I think that when people "keep their word", it's because it was in their best interest to do so. I don't really consider this "trust".

[Brainwalter]

[ QUOTE ]

I think that when people "keep their word", it's because it was in their best interest to do so. I don't really consider this "trust".

[/ QUOTE ]

I trust my friends to do right by me and not stab me in the back, because I know them to be trustworthy and they're my friends.

I trust pokerstars to send me my money back when i ask for it, because they have demonstrated trustworthiness and it's in their best interest (I don't know Lee Jones personally).

I don't trust the US government to, say, keep their promises to repay their Social Security obligations (or the regular debt for that matter) because they have demonstrated unstrustworthiness AND the incentives are not there that make it in their best interest to keep their word. (I don't know them personally either).

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
I trust my friends to do right by me and not stab me in the back, because I know them to be trustworthy and they're my friends.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so - you're guessing that they value your friendship enough to not stab you in the back. You may be right and I hope you're right. But dressing it up as some sort of special covenant between soulmates is self-deceiving (IMO - obviously it's working for you so long as your friends don't surprise you.)

[ QUOTE ]
I trust pokerstars to send me my money back when i ask for it, because they have demonstrated trustworthiness and it's in their best interest (I don't know Lee Jones personally).

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not "trust", that's a financial transaction with benefits to each side. How romantic.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't trust the US government to, say, keep their promises to repay their Social Security obligations (or the regular debt for that matter) because they have demonstrated unstrustworthiness AND the incentives are not there that make it in their best interest to keep their word. (I don't know them personally either).

[/ QUOTE ]

What would happen if parameters changed so that Poker Stars would benefit by keeping your money. Will your "trust" be enough to get your $s?

[DVaut1]

[ QUOTE ]
Everybody acts in their own best interest.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
That's exactly why you can trust people.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I bought a hot dog from a hot dog stand the other day. The hot dog vendor could have given me a very poor quality or deadly hotdog, but he did not. If he gives our crappy hot dogs, no one is going to give him business, and action might be taken against him. He is acting in his own best interest. That is why you can trust hot dog vendors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. This is why I trust cigarette manufacturers.

[ConstantineX]

You can trust them to give them exactly what you asked for, not exactly what's best for you.

[DVaut1]

[ QUOTE ]
You can trust them to give them exactly what you asked for, not exactly what's best for you.

[/ QUOTE ]


Wait, where exactly are the goalposts now?

Recall the claim here:

[ QUOTE ]
The hot dog vendor could have given me a very poor quality or deadly hotdog, but he did not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now replace hot dog vendor with Phillip Morris. Does hmk's claim still hold true? Can we 'trust' the cigarette manufacturer?

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Everybody acts in their own best interest.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
That's exactly why you can trust people.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I bought a hot dog from a hot dog stand the other day. The hot dog vendor could have given me a very poor quality or deadly hotdog, but he did not. If he gives our crappy hot dogs, no one is going to give him business, and action might be taken against him. He is acting in his own best interest. That is why you can trust hot dog vendors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. This is why I trust cigarette manufacturers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you comparing them to organic vegetable producers without overtly saying so?