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  #71  
Old 10-24-2007, 04:22 PM
daveT daveT is offline
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Default Re: Standard Parent Question

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I havent thought as deeply on the subject as Dave.

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Bad parenting has had a profound effect on everything in my life. I don't blame them for everything, obv, but there are things.

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I just know that before I can take care of another person, I need to be able to take care of myself. Im a very destructive person and have many personal and chemical demons.

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I think reading Blarg's post can give you a glimpse of what you would expect to happen to your child if you had one now.

I do believe that all people mature at their own pace, and that should be the driving focus of the decisions you make. It is good that you can admit your own short-comings, and taking care of those would be a good first step before you consider having a child. I think also, at a younger age, biologically, your desire to have children does not exist. I remember when I was 22 and someone told me, at 27, that his dream was to open a restaurant and raise a family. I was sort of taken aback. To me, all that was important was getting to the next city and finding a new adventure. He was already through that mess. He told me that, for him, there was nothing more to look forward to. Not in a depressing way, just in a way that said "it's okay." He told me that at my age, kids was an appalling thought, but as he got older, the desire grew in him.


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I am trying to get better and clean myself up, but its going to take time. Its also dumb to say, but I feel that my kid would turn out like me and take some of the stupid paths I have taken. That very thought which may seem trivial to a lot of people really affects me.

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It is not dumb to say. The apple does not fall far from the tree has tons of truth.

It is not a myth that a child to alcoholic and drug using parents will be more likely to use them themselves, especially from the mother. I think that the only thing that saved me from drug addiction and alcoholism was my mom's drug abuse. I have an unusually high tolerance to drugs and alcohol.

And following the theme of this thread, please take your time. Seasons change, not because you want them to, but because they have to. It may seem like it is all up to you, but your mind will only grow so fast.
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  #72  
Old 10-24-2007, 04:31 PM
Conspire Conspire is offline
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Default Re: Standard Parent Question

Dave,

Thanks for expounding, I agree with everything you said.
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  #73  
Old 10-24-2007, 04:43 PM
revots33 revots33 is offline
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Default Re: Standard Parent Question

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Not too long ago:

People thought 30k a year was good money.
People thought it was bad to raise a child in an apartment
People thought AOL was the gods gift to earth.
Food wasn't loaded with insecticides.
Rap was about having fun.
Hairspray was used more than gel.

The world is changing in many ways.

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True, the world changes. In a few more years we'll likely be saying that 37 is too young to have a child. Or maybe 47. At what age can we finally say that it's really just people being afraid to grow up and take on adult responsibilities?

And BTW I have no children and my wife and I don't plan any. So I am not arguing anyone's personal choice. NO ONE should have kids if they don't want them, at any age. My argument is with the idea that a 27 year old is not a full grown adult in every sense of the word. He is, although of course he is free to continue thinking and acting like an adolescent if he chooses.
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  #74  
Old 10-24-2007, 07:03 PM
Belok Belok is offline
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Default Re: Standard Parent Question

I figure I can contribute a little to this thread, as I am 22 and did not plan on having kids until 25+. The fiance is now 1 month away from her due date, and my office is pastel green with a crib in it.


I'll skip by all of the fairly obvious positives/negatives of being a parent, and try to outline what I think is the major "life-changing" aspect of becoming a parent.


I'd say most people in this world are inherently very selfish. I still am, to an extent. But the past half-year of knowing that I'm going to be a parent has really changed my outlook. The days when I didn't give a [censored] about anybody but myself are over...forever.


There is a very different feeling that you get when you know that someones' entire livelihood is completely reliant on you. I'm sure the feeling effects everybody differently, but personally, it has made me work harder and smarter than I ever have before. It has been a whole new level of motivation for me. Mind you, the baby is 1 month away from being born still. I may have some "moment of awakening" when I hold her for the first time, but can't really comment about that until it happens.

I'm sure OP's mother (and all mothers) want their children to eventually find the level of maturity and compassion that are encouraged by being a parent. I'm sure they also had fond memories of raising their own children, and are eager to experience this over again with grandchildren.


In terms of your own personal gratification from being a parent - this is one thing that is pretty much universal for all people (hell, even for all species). One of the most noble/honorable things you can do in this world is to be a good father/mother to your children. Ask any parent.

My whole mindset may change in a month when my spawn is born, but right now this is what I think [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #75  
Old 10-25-2007, 12:13 AM
satya satya is offline
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Default Re: Standard Parent Question

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We can't take that for granted anymore at all, and so popping out kids just because that's the way it was always done before, and because one might as well just do what they like and hope for the best, seems very outdated to me.

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Outdated? More like coded into our DNA. Not that I disagree with anything you said really. What's that say about our our societal values when we can't afford to reproduce?

While driving through an upper middle class track housing neighborhood one night at around 7pm, my daughter commented about how she wished we had a nicer house. I told her to look at how many of those "homes" had lights on. Maybe 5-10%. 7pm on a week night and no one was home. Why? Working OT or a second job to pay the mortgage? I asked her if she would be willing to take time away from hobbies, interests, social activities, etc in order to be able to live in a house like that when she was older. She decided the things she did and the people she cared about brought her more pleasure than living in a pretty house that looked just like the pretty house next door, and the next house after that, etc, etc, would.

So, if she continues down the path of valuing all that doesn't glitter, she may end up making me a grandmother before I'm 45. And then I'll have to kill her.

OP, go with your gut, it will never lie to you. You're not old enough to have the urge to reproduce anyway. I think that comes 'round early - mid 30s for most (if they haven't succumbed already). And, (if you're going to get it) you likely will get the "urge" when *you're* ready, not when mom is - which is how it should be.

Oh, and FWIW, I'm 41. When my mother, (or anyone for that matter), tells me what to do, my gut reaction is to do the exact opposite. OOPS! Guess I'm not ready to have kids!
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  #76  
Old 10-25-2007, 04:11 AM
Blarg Blarg is offline
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Default Re: Standard Parent Question

Our DNA used to be more in accord with our lives. That's how we survived rather than perished. When your DNA is too much in conflict with the world outside, the chance of survival diminishes. The good news is that in industrialized countries, people are adapting by having fewer kids and having them later. The invisible hand of the genetic marketplace, as it were. The bad news is that those who can't adapt are both getting wiped out economically and flooding the gene pool with biological and social memes that are no longer viable, a perverse double whammy. I wonder if it will cancel itself out. It certainly won't achieve any result whatsoever without a lot of pain.

Unfortunately all this says a ton about our values. Sometimes I think values have grown too passe to be bothered with.
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  #77  
Old 10-25-2007, 01:45 PM
revots33 revots33 is offline
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Default Re: Standard Parent Question

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In terms of your own personal gratification from being a parent - this is one thing that is pretty much universal for all people (hell, even for all species).

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I'm not 100% sure about this. I think saying "I wish I never had kids" is totally taboo in our society. Doesn't mean some parents out there aren't thinking it.
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  #78  
Old 10-25-2007, 01:46 PM
Blarg Blarg is offline
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Default Re: Standard Parent Question

Definitely.
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  #79  
Old 10-25-2007, 03:27 PM
daveT daveT is offline
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Default Re: Standard Parent Question

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The bad news is that those who can't adapt are both getting wiped out economically and flooding the gene pool with biological and social memes that are no longer viable, a perverse double whammy.

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Great thought.

I used to volunteer at a soup line, and nothing burned me more than seeing a mother dragging three children behind her. I have been stopped on the street by a mother pan-handling with her child five feet behind her. A fourteen year old girl asked me for change at a park, and I told her that's not right. Then I see a mother with five children boarding a bus. I just want to shake these people, like, what you guys thinking!

I see the foreclosure rates increasing and I wonder what happened. I don't know, maybe I am a pessimist.
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  #80  
Old 10-25-2007, 04:11 PM
Kimbell175113 Kimbell175113 is offline
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Default Re: Standard Parent Question

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OP, go with your gut, it will never lie to you.

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If I have learned anything from the great people on these fora, it's that guts lie to their owners all the time. How often do we have young men come here asking for advice about poker, dating, finance, or fitness, only to learn that the most effective long term plans are quite often the exact opposite of what seems natural? As Blarg has said, our genes are hundreds of thousands of years behind us, and they can tell you what worked for your ancestors, but not for you.
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