Why does it matter if Hitler was atheist/Christian...??

[einbert]

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Well I have trouble seeing Hitler as a true follower of any religion since he was mainly a proponent of his own ideologies and wrote a lot of things to match his own personal vision.

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LOL

[tame_deuces]

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If this is the truth then how do you explain Lenin's, Stalin's, Pol Pot's and Mao Tse Tung's policies?


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These people are on the top of your head the 4 individuals you immediately think of when you utter the word 'logical reasoning'?

[Splendour]

Of course not tame_deuces...I doubt they are on the top of anyone's logician list...I do take exception to atheists claiming moral superiority over religious people though...Atheists have no monopoly on logic...and inhumane personal logic is no better than misapplied religious beliefs as I think recent political history shows...

[tame_deuces]

Yes I agree that these atheism vs theism debates go to far. There are certainly theists with their heads in the right place also, neither being an atheist nor a theist will in any way be a guarantee of ones personality.

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

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Yes I agree that these atheism vs theism debates go to far. There are certainly theists with their heads in the right place also, neither being an atheist nor a theist will in any way be a guarantee of ones personality.

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if someone tells me they are an atheist, i have no idea if they are intelligent or if they have morals. if someone tells me that they believe the bible is factual and that a guy named Noah actually built a boat big enough to house two of every animal to escape a flood, then I know that they are easily manipulated and naive.

If you made a prop bet with me to find a couple of thousand people to carry out genocide, I would go straight to a church. Thats were all the people who can't think for themselves hang out.

[tame_deuces]

There are points yes, but I just think the debates go to far. People throwing around Stalin and Hitler and it all drowning in near hostilities. It is possible to have a respectful debate on this.

I'm not a theist but I can certainly agree that Hitler didn't exactly go by the words of Jesus, and I am an atheist and I can certainly say that Stalin doesn't strike me as a reasonable man at all.

[Splendour]

I think you'd have to look at the Amish Lebowski...their children were killed and they forgave immediately...

Religions are comprised of people just like atheism is...If the person is too flawed then their actions will be flawed...There are a lot of smart people who are theists...Socrates might have been one as evidenced by the peaceful way he approached death...


tame_deuces, What people don't realize is that one of the aims of religion is holiness (a higher form of goodness) which allows people to approach God...Some religious people don't even see it so how could they ever explain this to a non-religious person...they dumb it down to mere goodness...The truth is that holiness is something to be strived for but we still need God to meet us with grace because we can't do it by ourselves....Holiness is a much higher standard than goodness...and its easily missed by a religious outsider where he's probably busy focusing on people they believe to be hypocrites in our midst...Then again Christianity welcomes hypocrites...the church is the hospital where the hypocrite comes to be fixed...The book of Isaiah has an interesting chapter where Isaiah is in the presence of God when he realizes his holiness isn't anywhere near where it needs to be, but God handles it...

[einbert]

You can always look at history for a measuring stick of philosophies and ideals, but that's all it is--a measuring stick. Everyone within certain ideological groups has their own 'version', and this is not exclusive to theists. Atheists have their own ideas of right and wrong which are often radically different from those of others atheists.

But if you look through history, you will see how certain philosophical systems influence not just individuals, but entire societies. This is where the true danger lies. And for some reason the average Joe who is a Christian probably enjoys a lot of the sinful pleasures the bible strictly forbids, while at the same time demonizing homosexuals and possibly atheists as well.

Look at the influence of Islam on the history of the world, and its influence on the current world. It has caused a tremendous amount of unjust violence and continues to do so today in the name of God. Atheism as a system is so different because people generally reach that conclusion more independently of society. This tends to select a different part of the population that you can draw your own conclusions about, but for whatever reason that population tends to be a lot less into demonizing individuals based on fairly arbitrary ideas.

[tame_deuces]

You can say that, but at the same both Islam and Christianity are on paper relatively peaceful religions. People have certainly done many horrible atrocities in the name of religion, but I can certainly understand that many peaceful theists get frustrated when this get thrown in their face every time a discussion comes along.

[jogsxyz]

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if someone tells me that they believe the bible is factual and that a guy named Noah actually built a boat big enough to house two of every animal to escape a flood, then I know that they are easily manipulated and naive.



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There's evidence that something like this flood actually happened. Only the entire known world was not flooded. Just a major portion of it. Only essential animals were saved.
After the story is told after many generations, there are embellishments. Try telling a story to a line of ten people. Each retelling the story to the next person. Listen to what the tenth person says.