Please evaluate turn..KK with A on the flop

[rafiki]

hahaha raise a K river ? WHY ?

[Fianchetto]

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hahaha raise a K river ? WHY ?

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Oh yeah, didn't realize that puts 4 to a straight on board too. Yes, probably better to just call on a king river.

[blindside]

i don't think just calling the flop and c/r'ing the turn here with AJ is an uncommon play... he might've just been resigned to check/call down and then c/r when he hit his money card...

[Justin A]

I hate the turn bet.

However, having bet the turn I don't mind the 3bet because it's a "don't f*ck with me" 3bet and that can be important against this type of player even if you don't show your hand down.

[PokerBob]

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I don't know whether the turn 3-bet is 'technically correct' or not,but in this situation with this particular player,I like it.

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why?

[rafiki]

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I hate the turn bet.

However, having bet the turn I don't mind the 3bet because it's a "don't f*ck with me" 3bet and that can be important against this type of player even if you don't show your hand down.

[/ QUOTE ]

that makes no sense. So not only have me made an error, but now we'll compound it. And somehow we're telling someone not to f#ck with us, even when we fold. Right, we sure showed him. We spewed 3 bets and folded. Take that !

[sternroolz]

Why is the turn bet bad here?

[Scary_Tiger]

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Why is the turn bet bad here?

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Opens ourselves up to c/r that we have to call, doesn't fold better made hands. Hands that you were ahead of on flop got there on the turn.

[rafiki]

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Why is the turn bet bad here?

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Because you're behind almost all his holdings with a draw you hit one time in 4.

I don't think I play anything close to optimal limit poker, which is why I come read these forums. But I generally try and get the most money in possible when I'm ahead, and the least possible when I'm behind. That principle here leads me to check. But maybe that's too passive. I think check/call gets weaker hands to bet, and gets us the cheapest showdown. But I'd be curious to hear a thorough explanation to the contrary.

[sternroolz]

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Why is the turn bet bad here?

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Because you're behind almost all his holdings with a draw you hit one time in 4.

I don't think I play anything close to optimal limit poker, which is why I come read these forums. But I generally try and get the most money in possible when I'm ahead, and the least possible when I'm behind. That principle here leads me to check. But maybe that's too passive. I think check/call gets weaker hands to bet, and gets us the cheapest showdown. But I'd be curious to hear a thorough explanation to the contrary.

[/ QUOTE ]

What hands does he reasonably hold here considering that he did not 3 bet pf and did not donk or c/r the flop?

I eliminate AJ, A10, AQ as hands he ought to have put some action in on the flop considering the board. 1010, JJ, and AA seem to be completely out of the question. That leaves J10, Q10, QJ, KJ(unlikely) and KQ(also unlikely), and I guess 55. He could also have a weak Ace. And he could also hold the flush although that seems unlikely since it would have to be Q9s, or some combination of cards 9 or lower. I am ahead of about half the hands he is likely to be holding(I think...I may be overestimating my chances here), and have lots of outs against the rest. Against J10(a reasonably likely holding), I have 19 outs. Against AJ or A10, I have 14 outs.

The three bet is an entirely different matter, but I question the wisdom of checking the turn with villians reasonable range of holdings considering his pf and flop play.