A fairly common situation - 400nl and playing blind

[Rotating Rabbit]

Hi

So this is something ive been thinking about a lot lately. 6 max 400nl eff stack 400.

Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Good, aggro player opens in CO, he opens a wide range there (either CO or button every orbit etc). So far in the last 6 or so orbits I have folded my big blind five times, and reraised him once (with J9s) and he folded. Anyway I elect to call.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (pot 32)

Whats your plan?

[Game_On]

check raise.

[ArturiusX]

Need to get into this guys head post flop. Is he agro? Will he fire 2 bullets? Does he get edgy when draws hit?

Anyway, check-raise is ok, but we have to fold when he 3-bets, which I hate, and he's going to fold all his missed hands to our c/r. I kind of like check-calling first up.

[Lucky]

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check raise.

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I dont like c/r flop, as it looks like the hand you have trying to push him out. What if he calls your c/r. Do you lead out on turn. Super expensive. c/f turn? not good either.

I probably just bet flop 3/4 pot and bet turn a bit above 2/3 planning to fold to raise. You're hand is more disguised and you put him to tough decision.

[AJFenix]

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I probably just bet flop 3/4 pot and bet turn a bit above 2/3 planning to fold to raise. You're hand is more disguised and you put him to tough decision.

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This also takes the play away from an aggressive player and doesn't let him put money in with the majority of his range that whiffed that flop and is in v. bad shape against our hand, when we can count on this aggressive player firing at least one bullet here when checked to. Tons of value in letting an aggressive player be aggressive and keeping his range for putting money in the middle wide, and exploiting that with a medium strength hand that can't really extract nearly as much value from weaker hands by being played aggressively itself.

[Lucky]

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I probably just bet flop 3/4 pot and bet turn a bit above 2/3 planning to fold to raise. You're hand is more disguised and you put him to tough decision.

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This also takes the play away from an aggressive player and doesn't let him put money in with the majority of his range that whiffed that flop and is in v. bad shape against our hand, when we can count on this aggressive player firing at least one bullet here when checked to. Tons of value in letting an aggressive player be aggressive and keeping his range for putting money in the middle wide, and exploiting that with a medium strength hand that can't really extract nearly as much value from weaker hands by being played aggressively itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're OOP against good aggressive opponent with a marginal hand. That's why I like bet/bet on flop and turn. Let him know you have hand and keep pot somewhat moderate compare to c/r line. How much do you c/r for on flop and whats you're turn action if called?

[Game_On]

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I probably just bet flop 3/4 pot and bet turn a bit above 2/3 planning to fold to raise. You're hand is more disguised and you put him to tough decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

This also takes the play away from an aggressive player and doesn't let him put money in with the majority of his range that whiffed that flop and is in v. bad shape against our hand, when we can count on this aggressive player firing at least one bullet here when checked to. Tons of value in letting an aggressive player be aggressive and keeping his range for putting money in the middle wide, and exploiting that with a medium strength hand that can't really extract nearly as much value from weaker hands by being played aggressively itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're OOP against good aggressive opponent with a marginal hand. That's why I like bet/bet on flop and turn. Let him know you have hand and keep pot somewhat moderate compare to c/r line. How much do you c/r for on flop and whats you're turn action if called?

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3x whatever he leads out for and re-evaluate if he calls and see what the turn brings. I'd rather let the agreesive fire his cb and take him out on the flop than lead the pot and take it down that way (a majority of the time). Why let him know you have a hand by leading out? I'd rather let him know after hes got something in there.

[AJFenix]

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You're OOP against good aggressive opponent with a marginal hand. That's why I like bet/bet on flop and turn. Let him know you have hand and keep pot somewhat moderate compare to c/r line. How much do you c/r for on flop and whats you're turn action if called?


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You're oop, yes. You have a marginal hand, yes. Why do you want to let him know you have a hand and take the play away from him? The fact that your hand is marginal means that its unlikely you will be able to extract much value from it by playing it aggressively. I didn't say I would check raise here. My standard here is to check/call. Allow him to put money in with a wide range of hands and exploit his aggression.

Medium strength hands = hands that rate to be good but a ton of their value comes from passive lines and exploiting overaggression, rather than playing them aggressively for value, when the range for aggressively extracting value from weaker hands is extremely thin compared to the range of hands that an aggressive player will put money in the middle with when allowed to do so.

[Rotating Rabbit]

Yeah well ppl have hit on what I was thinking basically which is that check raising is probably the best move on the flop as a stand alone, but if he calls we're not happy at all to be in an inflated pot with one pair on a drawy board against a good aggressive.

Which gets to my main problem with it which is that by check raising one pairs that we will be offering implied odds with (as opposed to c/ring 88 and shutting down if called) I'm not sure in the long run we're winning money from the moment the c/r is called. Maybe we are, or maybe we're just doing it to cover our c/red sets.

I somewhat like leading (both with this and air a lot more) if we're deep, because the information from opponent/deception from us is worth a lot more than the continuation bet because stacks are so deep. But in this case it would surely be a leak to fire out on flops we hit because most of the time villian is way behind but will take one stab.

So I started thinking about check-call and evaluate depending on the turn card as to a turn lead c/c or c/r. I'm still not sure though.

[Triumph36]

Mix up your lines. Every line suggested has its drawbacks and advantages, no one line is particularly more +EV than another because a good opponent will figure out what you're doing - vary them and use them all with all sorts of hands OOP.