Am I a scumbag, B&M?

[DeuceKicker]

I usually tend to side with the nitty older guys in areas of tipping, etiquette, etc... but this is the one area where I'm with the young punks.

Protecting your hand is a basic skill, like hand reading. If a guy proves to be incompetent at protecting his cards and reading the board, I'm not going to help him do either. "You shouldn't have cold-called with bottom pair when there was four to a straight and four to a flush on the river... oh, and I could see your cards."

[bernie]

It's a fine line when you're seeing his cards for the 3rd and 4th time in a short period of time.

The 1st time is an accident. 2nd time is a little less so(it's time to say something at this point). When it gets to the 3rd and 4th time, subconciously, you're now looking for it. It's not innocent because you know you're likely to see the cards. You don't innocently see his cards that often. You are very aware of being able to see them at that point. Personally I tend to look away if I catch a glimpse of white. I'd just rather not beat the game that way. It feels wrong to me to have an unfair advantage over the other players in this way.

I've told many people to protect their cards. I tell them once, making sure they know they are visible. After that, they're on their own.

The size of his stack is irrelevant.

Brings up an interesting scenario though. I wonder how this would go over with the table: You see his cards often but don't say anything. You start isolating him with crap. You get into a multiway pot and bounce others out on the turn knowing you have the guy beat HU with some low pair or high card. You win and someone calls the IWTSTH rule and sees you both playing crap. I'd like to hear you explain to the table how and why you played your hand that way.

b

[Milo]

My policy is to warn sober players once, then use the advantage if I do not need to move to gain it.

In the case of drunk players, I deem them to have made the decision to play impaired, and therefore accept the consequences of their foolishness.

[brick]

not a scumbag.
I tell beginners and everyone at 4-8 limit or less.
If they play or lot of poker, or choose to play higher stakes, then it's their responsibility to protect their hand.

[jeffnc]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really see the gray area that you refer to, any way you look at this situation you are clearly taking advantage of the situation. The reason I say not so sure about the scumbag part is that it seems a certain level of shadiness is acceptable in poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is this different than an extremely reliable tell?

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
not a scumbag.
I tell beginners and everyone at 4-8 limit or less.
If they play or lot of poker, or choose to play higher stakes, then it's their responsibility to protect their hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why should the limit matter?

If anything, one benefit of telling some newb donator on a higher limit is that it might ease the seriousness of the game for him a little bit. Who really wants to sit in a game that's overly serious and cutthroat to the max? Lot of donators don't really like that type of game. It has an effect of tightening their purse strings.

b

[brick]

it's their choice to sit down at a "higher" limit table.

when playing higher limits the money matters. That extra bet might buy a tank of gas. And since they have made the decision to play higher without learning the basics, then I'm happy to use the $ for a tank of gas.

also, I want the money now rather than hoping I might get it if they play again someday. In fact, and few will say this, I'd rather they lose the first time time and never play again so they don't become a donator for life.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
it's their choice to sit down at a "higher" limit table.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what? It's their choice to sit down and gamble money regardless of the limit.

[ QUOTE ]
when playing higher limits the money matters.

[/ QUOTE ]

To you. Which could also hinder your play at higher limits.

Technically, the limit shouldn't matter at all.

[ QUOTE ]
That extra bet might buy a tank of gas.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't a good way of looking at the chips on the table.

[ QUOTE ]
also, I want the money now rather than hoping I might get it if they play again someday.

[/ QUOTE ]

One way to do that is by endearing yourself to them more. It helps loosen up the purse strings where being a hardass nit has the tendency to tighten them. Which makes it a little easier to win more from them on the given day. It's not a bad thing to be the donators main 'bud' on a table.

b

[budblown]

1. Not a scumbag
2. 2/5 player is douche for not protecting his hand
3. This is poker not go fish - there is no reason to tell someone that you can see their hand. Their fault not yours.

Why not keep an advantage? Anybody that says any different is an idiot - although an honest idiot - but this isn't an honesty game, its a dishonesty game.

Getting a peak at someone else's cards is not cheating. It's free information, thats it. What you choose to do with that info is up to you.

[Mike Gallo]

[ QUOTE ]
. I'd like to hear you explain to the table how and why you played your hand that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey buddy, you play your hand your way, I will play mine my way. I knew I had you, I could see into your soul