Blackwater: Did anyone hear this???

[mrick]

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Cliff notes: the Polish ambassador's convoy is ambushed, the Polish bodyguards return fire and fight it out, one Polish bodyguard is actually killed, Polish ambassador is saved, event over. Then, Blackwater helicopters are called transport everyone away. As your link says, "Blackwater was not involved in protecting the Polish convoy." So the title of the article is misleading. What was your point again?

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That Blackwater was called in and completed the mission after the Polish bodyguards failed miserably.

[/ QUOTE ] You're not reading your own links. The Polish ambassador was saved by his bodyguards. The bodyguards efforts were successful --and heroic. One of them got killed. Blackwater arrived after the event was over and taxied everyone out.

I'm sure they got paid handsomely, of course, for a "mission accomplished"...

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He denies that Blackwater are above the law!!?

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No, he doesn't. [He] has publicly stated that Blackwater agents shouldn't be above the law.

[/ QUOTE ] I don't care what he has "publicly stated" elsewhere! Your link has the man's viewpoint very clearly. And the man's viewpoint is that Blackwater should not be investigated by the FBI using American standards of law!..

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And if they're above the law, why is the FBI investigating them presently?

[/ QUOTE ] You're absolutely correct there! You know what I think? I think it's all political posturing, because those guys have immunity in Iraq. The government sent the FBI after Blackwater to score some media points.



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To answer my own question, so you don't have to make up BS, they are not, nor have they ever been, immune from US law. Iraqi law, yes. US law, no.

[/ QUOTE ]Did I claim that Blackwater were immune from US law? I didn't. I pointed out that they have immunity in Iraq, something which was denied by that idiot from your link (here : "Blackwater [is not] unaccountable and above the law").

You're seriously saying that Blackwater are going to be held accountable in the United States for what they did in a foreign country in which they explicitly enjoy immunity?? Cut the BS. Do you realize what would happen if Blackwater were indeed indicted? The whole immunity shield protecting U.S. military personnel from foreign jurisdiction, put together through a series of one-sided bilateral treaties, would come undone. Never happen.

[mrick]

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It is important to remember, a lot of these operators are working in Iraq right now because it's the only job they've ever known.

[/ QUOTE ]So do you think it's a healthy thing this, only knowing a job of killing and destroying?

And since the best qualification soldiers have is their ability to kill and destroy, having these guys constantly employed says what about the USA ?

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Has ANY security contractor EVER been charged in The US Courts for a crime comitted as a contractor?

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No, but then, there has never been a need for one. Once the State investigation clears the agent, they are returned to work.

[/ QUOTE ] I take this as a No.

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[MidGe]

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It is important to remember, a lot of these operators are working in Iraq right now because it's the only job they've ever known.

[/ QUOTE ]So do you think it's a healthy thing this, only knowing a job of killing and destroying?

And since the best qualification soldiers have is their ability to kill and destroy, having these guys constantly employed says what about the USA ?

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Has ANY security contractor EVER been charged in The US Courts for a crime comitted as a contractor?

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No, but then, there has never been a need for one. Once the State investigation clears the agent, they are returned to work.

[/ QUOTE ] I take this as a No.

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It really seems very obvious that the use of security contractors (cowboys of sort for those that like westerns; I do, specially "Brokenback Mountain") to the US government, is just a means for the government to by-pass its own regulations in foreign countries!

[tame_deuces]

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There was nothing closed door about it. You misread my point. The point is, these guys are constantly accused of crimes, and always cleared.

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Actually there was the incident with the 17 dead Iraqis where both the Iraq investigation, the military investigation & the subsequent FBI investigation found that 14 of those 17 deaths were inexcusable.

But it is very unclear if they can be prosecuted. And that is unfortunate. Do something similar as an soldier and you risk spending a good bit of time in Leavenworth. Now if an incident like that alone is enough to warrant huge wide accusation of BW behavior is very doubtful. Incidents like this do (unfortunately) happen in war.

What isn't excusable is if they walk because there isn't even the OPTION to prosecute, _then_ someone messed up.

War is a bad thing and when even worse things happen, we need the ability to punish the transgressors of rules of engagement to stop it from escalating into something very, very bad.

[Money2Burn]

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What isn't excusable is if they walk because there isn't even the OPTION to prosecute, _then_ someone messed up.

War is a bad thing and when even worse things happen, we need the ability to punish the transgressors of rules of engagement to stop it from escalating into something very, very bad.

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Tame, I agree with most of the stuff you've posted in this thread. It seems like there is a HUGE conflict of interest for either the US or Iraq to be conducting investigations of Blackwater. There should be independant investigations held for these types of events by a neutral third party.

[tame_deuces]

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What isn't excusable is if they walk because there isn't even the OPTION to prosecute, _then_ someone messed up.

War is a bad thing and when even worse things happen, we need the ability to punish the transgressors of rules of engagement to stop it from escalating into something very, very bad.

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Tame, I agree with most of the stuff you've posted in this thread. It seems like there is a HUGE conflict of interest for either the US or Iraq to be conducting investigations of Blackwater. There should be independant investigations held for these types of events by a neutral third party.

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Something along those lines would do wonders for credibility, so it does seem like a very good idea.