10NL - KK in PF spot... and I'm worried?!

ev_slave · #1 10-15-2007, 01:15 PM

Villain (SB) is a rock with 18.92/18.92/0

Obviously we're both very deep, so this isn't an easy "I pay 75BB w/ KK every time" sort of situation. His stack is deep because the exact hand before he got tangled in a PF All-in w/ AA vs KK against another solid player. Up to my decision his betting has followed a little more reserved line, because he's not in position this time.

Obviously this sort of discussion comes up a LOT in beginner forum (When do you fold KK PF!!), but given villain's stats, does his range include JJ or QQ? I've certainly ruled out AK, and if I'm thinking prob of JJ is basically zero. If I can establish QQ as just calling my 4-bet, I can fold this. But can I rule it out?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $18.10
UTG+1: $12.65
CO: $10
Button: $12.80
SB: $18.70
BB: $9.40

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $0.4, 3 folds, SB raises to $1.3, BB calls, Hero raises to $5.4, SB raises all-in $18.7, BB folds, Hero calls all-in $13.1.
Uncalled bets: $5.6 returned to SB.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($15.7, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $27.5)

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($15.7, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $27.5)

River: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($15.7, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $27.5)

Results:
Final pot: $15.7

Perk76 · #2 10-15-2007, 01:34 PM

I am not folding KK here. People do weird stuff all the time, and his range at NL10 will include JJ/QQ/KK/AA/AK and maybe some other crap. Especially since he can very well try to get you isolated alone since SB had a call in there.

Edited to add: 18/18 is not a rock.

marimba man · #3 10-15-2007, 01:52 PM

Yeah 18/18 is tag pre, 0 AF post is wierd as is no coldcall pre, it looks like your samplesize is too small.

Without a really solid read I call.

bsball8806 · #4 10-15-2007, 01:55 PM

there is no way i fold this. If he's 19/19, that doesn't make him a rock, it just means whenever he plays, he raises. i never fold kings preflop unless i have some crazy tell/read on the guy that he'd never make a certain play without aces.

Besides, no one ever gets aces two hands in a row :-P

buttonpusher · #5 10-15-2007, 02:24 PM

not folding. 19/19 is not a rock, it means hes not playing if he isn't raising. I dont know what to make of the 0 AF, other than you must not have many hands on him at all.

So yea, call, cuss when he has aces twice in a row.

ev_slave · #6 10-15-2007, 02:40 PM

Ok... he's no rock. Sorry, lol. I put that because the 2+2 6-max autorate rules put him as a rock icon on my screen. Also, yes, the sample size is pretty small, but I hadn't seen him play anything other than lock-down poker. Also, I've only played solidly so far, so I expect that he's noticed and won't take me for a fool. I'll explain my read better next time.

[ QUOTE ]
Without a really solid read I call.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is the camp I'm in too, I was just wondering if a good tag can 4-bet with <KK (if he can't, it's a clear fold), but the consensus seems to be yes. The only reason I took the time to post was because the stacks were much deeper than I've had experience playing for in the past, so I was making sure I was using all the info I had as best as I could to make a good decision.

[ QUOTE ]

So yea, call, cuss when he has aces twice in a row.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh I did. A lot. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]