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  #1  
Old 10-13-2007, 06:13 AM
private joker private joker is offline
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Default hand vs. CDC

Commerce 20. Table has been pretty good. CDC is playing very aggressively, with spurts of LAG play (he's been caught firing rivers with 7 high and Q high and been called down a lot, then he backs off for a couple orbits and then fires up again), but I haven't been involved in any pots with him until now -- we know how each other plays so we're preparing to outlevel each other.

Some idiot raises in EP, CDC calls in the small blind, and I elect to just call in the BB with AKo and see the flop.

CDC bets the flop dark, and it comes 432. I call, and the PFR raises. We both call.

Turn is an 8 (rainbow board). CDC checks, I check, PFR checks.

River is a T. CDC bets, I raise, PFR folds, CDC 3-bets, and I beat him into the pot with a call.
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  #2  
Old 10-13-2007, 06:26 AM
SNOWBALL SNOWBALL is offline
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Default Re: hand vs. CDC

after PFR checks behind on the turn, I am no longer even remotely scared of his overcall. Why raise the river? Are you trying to get accused of collusion?
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  #3  
Old 10-13-2007, 06:29 AM
The Dude The Dude is offline
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Default Re: hand vs. CDC

[ QUOTE ]

after PFR checks behind on the turn, I am no longer even remotely scared of his overcall.

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #4  
Old 10-13-2007, 06:30 AM
private joker private joker is offline
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Default Re: hand vs. CDC

[ QUOTE ]
Why raise the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

As stupid as this sounds, it was for value vs. CDC's hand. Sure, he's folding a majority of the time with his bluffs, but a certain % of the time he's going to correctly read me for having a weak hand and try a 3-bet bluff. That's what I was hoping when I raise/called with ace high.

For the record, this is the first time I've ever raised and called a river 3-bet with ace high in a B&M game that I was playing seriously.
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Old 10-13-2007, 06:35 AM
The Dude The Dude is offline
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Default Re: hand vs. CDC

[ QUOTE ]
As stupid as this sounds, it was for value vs. CDC's hand. Sure, he's folding a majority of the time with his bluffs, but a certain % of the time he's going to correctly read me for having a weak hand and try a 3-bet bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]
There's a spewy way to try and make money off people who are being over-aggro, and there's a reasonable way. Raising rivers on blah boards with A high to induce a bluff 3bet is the spewy way, even if you've under-represented your hand preflop.
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  #6  
Old 10-13-2007, 06:52 AM
SNOWBALL SNOWBALL is offline
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Default Re: hand vs. CDC

PJ, would you care to five us an idea of what kinda hands CDC would be coldcalling with preflop from the sb? This is a 1/2 structure, right?
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  #7  
Old 10-13-2007, 06:57 AM
SNOWBALL SNOWBALL is offline
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Default Re: hand vs. CDC

[ QUOTE ]

As stupid as this sounds, it was for value vs. CDC's hand. Sure, he's folding a majority of the time with his bluffs, but a certain % of the time he's going to correctly read me for having a weak hand and try a 3-bet bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pj,

I think you might get demodded for this hand
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  #8  
Old 10-13-2007, 07:46 AM
private joker private joker is offline
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Default Re: hand vs. CDC

[ QUOTE ]
PJ, would you care to five us an idea of what kinda hands CDC would be coldcalling with preflop from the sb? This is a 1/2 structure, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

He can pretty much have a very wide range here. I'd say 22-66, maybe 77 (higher pairs he's 3-betting), any suited ace, suited connectors 54s+, maybe 65s+ up to QJs (earlier in the session he 3-bet 76s in position, but from the SB he'd probably just call with these hands) and maybe some gappers like KTs, Q9s, and J9s. Not sure what he'd do with offsuit small broadway like QJo or KTo. Hopefully fold, but he might speculate with those too.

If he had looked at the flop and then bet it, I probably would have folded the river, putting him on some type of hand with a 4 in it (A4, 54). But his dark bet set the tone for the hand, and his passive play up to the river clued me in to the probability of him having not much of a hand.

By the way, I find it extremely difficult to play against CDC, since IMO he's not only one of the flat-out best limit holdem players I know, but he reads hands extraordinarily well and makes sure that his own hands are difficult to read. As a result, I found myself folding playable hands to his preflop raises (hands like Axo and KJo I mucked, knowing I was ahead of his range; I just didn't want to get involved... the one time I did 3-bet him with KQo I was lucky enough to have his K5 dominated).

As another example, here's a hand I played like absolute crap against him a bit later in this session due to a miserable read:

I raise UTG with KK, a LAG lady 3-bet in LP, CDC capped from the BB, we both called. Flop was 944, CDC checked, I bet, LAG raised, CDC check/3-bet, I capped, LAG folded.

Turn was a J. Check-check.
River 8. He bets, I call, he shows QQ and I feel like a vagina. CDC said, "It feels like I got slowrolled."
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  #9  
Old 10-13-2007, 09:33 AM
bakku bakku is offline
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Default Re: hand vs. CDC

[ QUOTE ]
He can pretty much have a very wide range here. I'd say 22-66, maybe 77 (higher pairs he's 3-betting), any suited ace, suited connectors 54s+, maybe 65s+ up to QJs (earlier in the session he 3-bet 76s in position, but from the SB he'd probably just call with these hands) and maybe some gappers like KTs, Q9s, and J9s. Not sure what he'd do with offsuit small broadway like QJo or KTo. Hopefully fold, but he might speculate with those too.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you think this is CDC's range and EP is an idiot, why aren't you 3-betting PF? also, having played with him a lot in the past, high PPs are in his range. i've seen him call open raises with QQ-AA out of the SB then dark bet the flop many times.

[ QUOTE ]
As another example, here's a hand I played like absolute crap against him a bit later in this session due to a miserable read:

I raise UTG with KK, a LAG lady 3-bet in LP, CDC capped from the BB, we both called. Flop was 944, CDC checked, I bet, LAG raised, CDC check/3-bet, I capped, LAG folded.

Turn was a J. Check-check.
River 8. He bets, I call, he shows QQ and I feel like a vagina. CDC said, "It feels like I got slowrolled."

[/ QUOTE ]

despite the slowroll comment i don't think this hand was played poorly. CDC is capable of folding TT/QQ on the turn here if you bet again and is definitely check raising you with JJ/AA.
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  #10  
Old 10-13-2007, 09:48 AM
bakku bakku is offline
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Default Re: hand vs. CDC

as far as the hand in question, i'd just call on the river. though cdc is capable of 3-bet bluffing the river i don't think he is going to actually do it very often here. most of the time he's going to either fold to your raise or just call in which case you lose.
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