What is your turn and river line?

malteg · #1 08-20-2006, 04:44 PM

No reads on villain.

PokerRoom 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero ???

johnnytt · #2 08-20-2006, 04:49 PM

I bet and call down if raised probably.

cold_cash · #3 08-20-2006, 04:52 PM

Check and call a river bet, or bet if he check again.

Christian_Peters · #4 08-20-2006, 04:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I bet and call down if raised probably.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, why would you think about anything other than betting here?

Then again, maybe a check here would induce a bluff on the River when he would have folded to our Turn bet, and if he has the K, we save ourselves 2 BB. Also, if we hit our 4 outer, then we can raise his auto River bet, and if he has the K we might even get 1 more out of him [edit: we will get 1 more out of him]. Isn't this what they call winning the most when we are ahead, losing the least when we are behind?

cold_cash · #5 08-20-2006, 05:03 PM

Betting and calling all the way down is the worst way to go.

If you bet the turn and he has King he'll raise, if he doesn't he'll likely fold. Also, if you're still winning on the turn you won't be outdrawn very often on the river.

If you check the turn through he might bet on the end hoping you're scared of the board, and he'll correctly assume you don't have a King since you didnt bet the turn. When he bluffs the river, you call and win an extra bet you might not have won had you bet the turn.

Smurph64 · #6 08-20-2006, 05:10 PM

*grunch* what are your choices here.

Check/call, Raise/call, Check/fold..

What king hands would he be playing here after your pf and flop bets. KJs maybe but what else KQ, KT? K9? only one that works here is KQ or K9. Other possiblities are A9, 98.

I think its a raise here and a call down. If he has the straight you still have 2 kings likely 2 queens and 2 Aces to help you win or tie the pot.

6.7 to 1 odds. 10.75 bb in the pot...pretty easy call.

Christian_Peters · #7 08-20-2006, 05:11 PM

Yeah, I know. That's exactly what I thought too.

Smurph64 · #8 08-20-2006, 05:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Betting and calling all the way down is the worst way to go.

If you bet the turn and he has King he'll raise, if he doesn't he'll likely fold. Also, if you're still winning on the turn you won't be outdrawn very often on the river.

If you check the turn through he might bet on the end hoping you're scared of the board, and he'll correctly assume you don't have a King since you didnt bet the turn. When he bluffs the river, you call and win an extra bet you might not have won had you bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice answer better than mine. You have to call a river bet though right you shouldn't reraise it?

jrz1972 · #9 08-20-2006, 05:32 PM

Value-checking is a close second choice, and I would do it sometimes as a changeup, but generally I'm going to bet the turn and call down if I get raised. There are a bunch of ways for villain to have two pair here, and those hands definitely call the turn and river. I wouldn't be surprised if Ax called both streets.

Admittedly, I'm not going to be happy about it if I get raised, but I think there's enough value in a turn bet that I don't want to miss it.

jrz1972 · #10 08-20-2006, 05:36 PM

If you check the turn, there's very little value in a river raise. If villain has a K, it's not that hard for him to find a 3-bet with the nuts, but you'll succeed in folding out bluffs and weak one-pair type hands.