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#41
04-21-2007, 09:56 PM
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Re: To Catch a Predator
[ QUOTE ]
They do absolutely nothing to entice the men who appear on the show. They simply go to a chat room, or set a profile on myspace, and wait for someone to bite. They don't ask around for guys, or actively seek anyone out. [/ QUOTE ] I understand that in all the cases the guy sent a pm first. But that isn't a big deal to me. Sometimes you just click on names in chat rooms, and even if knowing it's a minor, it isn't a crime to pm them (until you initiate sex). So it means very little to me that the guy "initiated" the conversation. I'm more interested in how it went after that, They don't release the full transcripts of the chat. So I can't say for sure to what extent they entice the man. But it's a TV show. I think it's a little far-fetched to assume that upon hearing they're talking to a teacher or a rabbi they don't make a goal out of enticing him. I don't mind the idea of a sting when it weeds out people who are actual threats to minors. But your methods should mirror that. Proving that a man is capable of letting his lust get the better of him in this artificial situation, I don't think, means that you can assume he necessarily could have been capable of doing it in the real world. Most 13 year olds don't aggressively show sexual interest to a bald old man online. Most 13 year olds don't know exactly what buttons to press to interest the man. Most 13 year olds don't look like really hot 19 year olds. Most 13 year olds don't have an interest in meeting bad old men. Most 13 year olds don't happen to have a house all to themselves for the weekend. Most 13 year olds would probably give off a touch or two of awkwardness that might remind the man how he should feel about this. But when you're actually talking to adults intentionally trying to interest you, I think you might "feel" something different than the vibe you would get from actual minors. I dunno. I admit I'm basically just not giving the "investigators" the benefit of the doubt. But I think that's just hard to do when you introduce the entertainment aspect. 
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#42
04-21-2007, 10:21 PM
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Re: To Catch a Predator
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't go so far as to call all of these men scumbags.. what they are actually doing is planning to engage in consentual sex with what they think is a 13-15 year old girl. this is against the law..but what is so "sick" about it again? as yourself.."what would happen if the supposedly young girl in this case told them that she did not want to have sex with them?" My guess is that nearly all of them wouldn't pursue it any further...probably no more than they would if this were an attractive girl of legal age..maybe even less. the law is supposed to (or should IMO) protect young girls (and boys) who are not mature enough to make these types of decisions in an educated manner... let's not pretend that there is some hard and fast line where a person suddenly becomes mature enough to make these decisions.....I'm sure that there are plenty of 15 year old girls that can make a more educated decisions than many 18+ year olds... still...there is a law in place...many of these guys have children and I'm sure they wouldn't want a random guy soliciting their children for sex..even if their children consented... so they are breaking the law...and they must be punished for that... but let's not throw out a broad label of "sick" or "scumbag" as far as the ethics of producing a show like this... let's face it..if you want to arrest every single man who would engage in sex with a attractive 15 year old girl if that girl wanted to..we'd be pretty busy.. I think the focus should be on people who are actively seeking out young children...which I think they are generally doing in this case... but to make a show about it..for entertainment..and give them what I think are special priveleges like being able to show their faces even when they have not been convicted of any crime..that's just ridiculous. [/ QUOTE ] Wanting to [censored] a 12 year old boy in the ass is definitely disgusting, whether he consents to it or not. Furthermore, several of these guys have talked about including animals, they are scum.
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#43
04-21-2007, 10:26 PM
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Re: To Catch a Predator
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] They do absolutely nothing to entice the men who appear on the show. They simply go to a chat room, or set a profile on myspace, and wait for someone to bite. They don't ask around for guys, or actively seek anyone out. [/ QUOTE ] I understand that in all the cases the guy sent a pm first. But that isn't a big deal to me. Sometimes you just click on names in chat rooms, and even if knowing it's a minor, it isn't a crime to pm them (until you initiate sex). So it means very little to me that the guy "initiated" the conversation. I'm more interested in how it went after that, They don't release the full transcripts of the chat. So I can't say for sure to what extent they entice the man. But it's a TV show. I think it's a little far-fetched to assume that upon hearing they're talking to a teacher or a rabbi they don't make a goal out of enticing him. I don't mind the idea of a sting when it weeds out people who are actual threats to minors. But your methods should mirror that. Proving that a man is capable of letting his lust get the better of him in this artificial situation, I don't think, means that you can assume he necessarily could have been capable of doing it in the real world. Most 13 year olds don't aggressively show sexual interest to a bald old man online. Most 13 year olds don't know exactly what buttons to press to interest the man. Most 13 year olds don't look like really hot 19 year olds. Most 13 year olds don't have an interest in meeting bad old men. Most 13 year olds don't happen to have a house all to themselves for the weekend. Most 13 year olds would probably give off a touch or two of awkwardness that might remind the man how he should feel about this. But when you're actually talking to adults intentionally trying to interest you, I think you might "feel" something different than the vibe you would get from actual minors. I dunno. I admit I'm basically just not giving the "investigators" the benefit of the doubt. But I think that's just hard to do when you introduce the entertainment aspect. [/ QUOTE ] Judging from what Hansen says and reads from the chat, it seems that the men are extremely vivid in talking to the "children." They ask them about their sexual fantasies and then ask them if they will perform these acts on them. What do you mean do it in the real world? In this case the guys spoke to the "children" on the internet about having sex with them, then went to their house to meet up with them. What do you think would happen if a real kid was there, do you think the guy would not have sex with the kid? What you are saying is that they just spoke to the kid, said they wanted sex, but never actually went to meet up with them. But that isn't the case, here, they did go meet up with them, often bringing suggested sexual items (or even getting naked), clearly, they were going to go through with it.
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#44
04-21-2007, 10:28 PM
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Re: To Catch a Predator
Very entertaining, though I dislike how the cops rush out en masse, screaming, every time the dude leaves the house.
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#45
04-21-2007, 10:29 PM
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Re: To Catch a Predator
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I wouldn't go so far as to call all of these men scumbags.. what they are actually doing is planning to engage in consentual sex with what they think is a 13-15 year old girl. this is against the law..but what is so "sick" about it again? as yourself.."what would happen if the supposedly young girl in this case told them that she did not want to have sex with them?" My guess is that nearly all of them wouldn't pursue it any further...probably no more than they would if this were an attractive girl of legal age..maybe even less. the law is supposed to (or should IMO) protect young girls (and boys) who are not mature enough to make these types of decisions in an educated manner... let's not pretend that there is some hard and fast line where a person suddenly becomes mature enough to make these decisions.....I'm sure that there are plenty of 15 year old girls that can make a more educated decisions than many 18+ year olds... still...there is a law in place...many of these guys have children and I'm sure they wouldn't want a random guy soliciting their children for sex..even if their children consented... so they are breaking the law...and they must be punished for that... but let's not throw out a broad label of "sick" or "scumbag" as far as the ethics of producing a show like this... let's face it..if you want to arrest every single man who would engage in sex with a attractive 15 year old girl if that girl wanted to..we'd be pretty busy.. I think the focus should be on people who are actively seeking out young children...which I think they are generally doing in this case... but to make a show about it..for entertainment..and give them what I think are special priveleges like being able to show their faces even when they have not been convicted of any crime..that's just ridiculous. [/ QUOTE ] Wanting to [censored] a 12 year old boy in the ass is definitely disgusting, whether he consents to it or not. Furthermore, several of these guys have talked about including animals, they are scum. [/ QUOTE ] I find it hard to regard a person as "scum" for something that they cannot control.. I have no problem, however, regarding someone as "scum" for refusing to suppress a tendency that would harm another person... whether or not harm to another person occurrs is my main focus in evaluating these types of things. I don't think that is unreasonable.
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#46
04-21-2007, 11:01 PM
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Re: To Catch a Predator
Well I'm assuming that a lot of people have some potential to commit a sex act with a minor. But most of us carry a sense of judgment that outweighs whatever attraction we might have to a particular minor. I'm saying that I think the really hot 19 year olds posing, and the smooth decoys talking, simulates a really, really enticing situation (maybe a situation that most of these people would never encounter in the real world). So just because their desires got the best of their judgment here, I'm not convinced that means you can assume they were likely to ever have hurt anyone. It means they were capable of it, sure, under these ideal circumstances.
If I'm trying to figure out which dogs are likely to bite someone, and euthanize the ones that will, I won't put raw meat in my sleeve and growl at the dog. If I do, I'll weed out some dogs that weren't likely to ever attack under real world conditions.
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#47
04-21-2007, 11:03 PM
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Re: To Catch a Predator
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] First of all, the decoys often pretend to be 13 or 14, which is obviously young, but still within the age of sexual maturity. [/ QUOTE ] It's not pedophilia, but it is predatory. [/ QUOTE ] grunch, the term for post-pubescent sexual predation is "ephebophilia". useful piece of trivia there.
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#48
04-21-2007, 11:07 PM
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Re: To Catch a Predator
[ QUOTE ]
what they are actually doing is planning to engage in consentual sex with what they think is a 13-15 year old girl. this is against the law..but what is so "sick" about it again? [/ QUOTE ] Dude, it's way different than a 15 or 17 year old guy hitting on a 15 year old girl. It's an adult trying to have sex with someone way less emotionally mature. In other words, a parasitic relationship more or less. It's very sick and very wrong, would you hit on a 15 year old girl or have sex with one if she propositioned you? Of course not, though you might be tempted.
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#49
04-21-2007, 11:07 PM
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Re: To Catch a Predator
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] It's a news program [/ QUOTE ] Debatable. Plus, can the 6 PM news go out to a speed trap the cops have set up and broadcast the busted people's face that night? The real thing on this show is that the internet is so murky. Yahoo chat rooms used to have all kinds of pretty twisted sexual fantasy room a few years ago anyway, including rape. I just don't see how "it's the interent, I didn't believe she was 13" is not a way out. [/ QUOTE ] "Uhh...yeah, Chris, I didn't seriously think this chick was 14. Thats part of the role-playing. No 14 year old chick talks like that, I knew she had to be 20 at least. I was playing along with it because I figured she got as much fun out of it as I did. I was definitely coming here to [censored] her, but I was coming here to [censored] a 20 year old who liked to pretend she was a 14 year old. Wait....is there actually a 14 year old here? Oh my god, thats horrible, why would you guys bring a 14 year old to something like this?!?! She could be scarred for life. How irresponsible and predatory, to use a 14 year-old for ratings! For shame, Chris, for shame."
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#50
04-21-2007, 11:10 PM
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Re: To Catch a Predator
[ QUOTE ]
I find it hard to regard a person as "scum" for something that they cannot control.. I have no problem, however, regarding someone as "scum" for refusing to suppress a tendency that would harm another person... whether or not harm to another person occurrs is my main focus in evaluating these types of things. I don't think that is unreasonable. [/ QUOTE ] If I'm a psycho killer, I'm not scum if I try to kill people? And I am scum if I succeed? I think that's unreasonable.
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