Official argue about all things Barry Bonds GOAT thread

[RedBean]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have no valid prescription for the drug it is illegal.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not if the drug is not illegal.

This is what we are trying to explain to you, but you are refusing to understand.

[ QUOTE ]

Federal law regarding control of substances has not substantially changed in the past 10 years. I have no clue why you think it has.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably because I rely on facts, instead of making them up.

The FDA added 'the clear' to it's list of controlled substances October 28th, 2003.

Boo-yah...

[offTopic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its pretty std that exceptional players don't follow normal peak/decline phases. Look at Ted Williams and Mariano Rivera.

[/ QUOTE ]

Off-topic: I hate looking at Teddy Ballgame's career stats and seeing those age 24-26 years missing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, man. Not my fault, IMO

[RedBean]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you really trying to say that when you cited Hank's usage you were only saying he used one time? hahahaha.


[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly didn't say it was habitual, as you've claimed.

[ QUOTE ]

Very similar to the rugby argument you had where neglected to add that the competition was only among 4 teams.


[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, that's what this is about.....a rugby fan scorned.

And you're not really here to talk about Bonds....you're here because you're mad at *me*.

How cute...

PM me your name and address, I'll mail you out something from the fan club, and maybe a signed picture.

[ QUOTE ]

And then you completely ignore the point about the Clear being untestable, again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because, like most of your arguments, they aren't based in reality, and just made up. The clear is detectable by urine test as administered by MLB.

But don't let the facts get in the way...

[RedBean]

[ QUOTE ]
Very similar to the rugby argument you had where neglected to add that the competition was only among 4 teams.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know, not to steer too much off-topic, but you got to be three shingles short of a roof or something if you are really making this argument.

1. OP makes thread about hypothetical group of american football players getting 6 months to prepare and being able to compete on national stage in rugby.

2. RedBean posts excerpt from article detailing historical event in which group of american football players get 6 months to prepare and go on to win on national stage in rugby.

3. Guys like you cry foul "ITS NOT THE SAME! NOT EVEN CLOSE! YOU DIDN'T MENTION IT WAS ONLY 4 TEAMS! YOU ARE DISHONEST!"

4. To which I post the link to the entire article I cited, pointing out that no where does it mention there were only 4 teams...something I was sincerely unaware of outside that piece....despite it not fundamentally changing the substance of the similarity.....and I reiterate that I am not drawing any conclusion, I just thought those interested in the discussion would find an extremely similar situation to be somewhat interesting and worth a read.

5. To which guys like you stomp your feet and flail your arms and insist I am "dishonest".....for my posting of historical fact.

I mean, seriously.

[RedBean]

[ QUOTE ]

So do you think his relationship with his teammates and others (not just the media) was good or bad compared to others?


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say just about like any other ballplayer, good with some, bad with others.

Despite what you may think, he isn't some kind of social pariah that is disliked by all former teammates.

For example, the Saturday before Halloween... a bunch of Bond's friends put on an event to celebrate him breaking the Homerun record.

Among those in attendance were Matt Williams, Kenny Lofton, Rich Aurilia, Ryan Klesko, Bobby Bonilla, and Vince Coleman..to name a few.

The media would tell you Jeff Kent wasn't there, but not bother to list those numerous teammates who were.

It's par for the course.

FWIW...also in attendance were Eddie Murphy, Quincy Jones, Tyler Perry, Johnny Gill, Magic Johnson, Sugar Ray Leonard, and Marcus Allen.

Guy must be some prick, huh? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[bowens]

It's not Bond's, it's Bonds'. You've done this several times. I believe you to be grammatically dishonest. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Just foolin. Continue on. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[manbearpig]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've read like 10 posts and can tell manbearpig is pissed cause Bonds is the greatest ever, but acts like a dildo.

[/ QUOTE ]

People romanticize sports so much, that whenever someone isnt "just so" or fit what they think they should act like (man with the white hat LDO) they get all riled up. Some people can just come out and say "[censored] it I hate him" but others do things like post in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh. I am kinda in the middle on Bonds. I really dont care if he or anyone else did use PED's. It was just a part of the game.

He is without a doubt one of the greatest, if not the greatest of all time. I have no issue with that. He is unfairly singled out to be the face of steroids because he hit a ton of HR's and is surly to the media. But his personality is irrelevant to me. Athletes dont owe us anything. If he wants to be a dick to everyone I dont really care. On the other side I dont go around praising other athletes for being nice guys or giving money to charity or whatever.

I am just sticking around this thread now for the sake of arguing. My main issue does not have anything to do with Bonds directly but more with the issue of some people being so hard headed and blind that they cannot admit that there is a decent chance something unnatural occured. Seems simple enough to me.

[manbearpig]

[ QUOTE ]

----


Let's keep going:

<u>Hypothesis:</u> But even with the previous findings, only Bonds has gotten WAYYY better after age 35, his increase in HR rate is unprecedented.

<u>Methodology:</u> We're going to compare the 5 seasons before and after age 35 between Hank Aaron and Barry Bonds, adjusting for the respective league average for each period.

<u>Findings:</u>
From age 30-34: Hank's rate was 2.5 times the entire league.
From age 35-39: Hank's rate was 3.75 times the entire league.

From age 30-34: Bond's rate was 2.5 times the entire league.
From age 35-39: Bond's rate was 3.75 times the entire league.

<u>Summary:</u>
Far from 'unprecedented'...more like 'eerily similar'.

Newsflash- The best of the best...the most far reaching outlier of special player does special things, and it's not 'proof' of anything more than them being a special player.

The stats merely show Bonds is among the best.
No more, no less.

[/ QUOTE ]


This post should cover all your Hank Aaron comparisons:

park effects.

And a linky for you: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=2795

[manbearpig]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
re: HR/H and HR/BIP

I'd expect these percentages to go up for most any player with Bonds skill set, for what should be obvious reasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I am dense, but please elaborate. Unless you are referencing Bill James theory of maintaining one skill set even as others deteriorate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bonds as he got older got bigger/fatter and slower. He's no longer able to hit as many singles as before, which means his hr/h could increase drastically without even gaining power/homers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, except for he did gain power.

[manbearpig]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Because he is the singular person here that is willing to go to great lengths to defend BB

[/ QUOTE ]

he's not the only one, its just he's so good at it, the rest just let him take care of business

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. No need to waste time arguing when RB does it way better than I ever could. Bonds was the best player in MLB before the steroid era, during the steroid era, and even now in his 40's is 1 of the most feared hitters after the steroid era. IMO, anybody who doesn't vote for him on the HOF ballot should immediately have their voting privileges revoked for life. And this is coming from a die hard Reds fan who has no interest in Bonds besides the fact that he is the best I've ever seen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely agree. He is still probably the best hitter in the game. And without a doubt he should be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer.