kk 240bbs deep oop

[phantom_lord]

he's 22/17/3, seems decent from the little i've seen (last night was the first time i've played with him), we're sitting beside each other on 2 other tables and I've been 3betting a few of his lp raises from the button, and defending strongly against his blind steals. he hasn't called or 4bet yet .

i'm a bit rusty and felt a bit lost in this hand, my 3bet really sucks, i was lazy and just clicked pot.


Noble Poker 0.50/1.00, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker

saw flop | <font color="red">saw showdown</font>

Button ($180.00)
SB ($99.00)
BB phantom_lord ($241.40)
UTG <font color="red">UTG ($347.21)</font>
UTG+1 ($99.90)
CO ($69.05)

Preflop: phantom_lord is in the BB with K K
UTG raises to 4.00, 4 folds, phantom_lord raises to 11.00, UTG raises to 34.50, phantom_lord calls 26.50.

Flop (77.50) Q 4 T
phantom_lord checks, UTG bets 55.00 <font color="red"> </font>

[tarheeljks]

i don't think you can do anything other than call.

[h_ven]

Wow... tought spot that deep. The value of overpairs becomes less with this deep of stacks.

tarheel,
If Hero just calls on the flop, what do you expect villian to do on the turn? I think villian is most likely going to fire out a large bet on the turn forcing hero to make another tough decision.

[Fiksdal]

I typically just fold here. Given positions I don't think villain is gonna 4bet light here, so I put him on QQ+, AK for his preflop range, maybe even KK+. This range has us crushed on that flop (even AK has 7 outs, and if we chose to play, AK isn't even putting the rest of the money in). And I really think villain is gonna have aces a lot here.

[hellmuth88]

this deep,40% of the time on this flop i call once, and probably giving up on the turn... because he could easily have ak, and he probably isnt dubble barreling this deep with air...
the other 60% i probably fold it on this flop to his cbet

[tarheeljks]

i know what you mean. yeah folding is probably best b/c his range is dominating us. however, this deep i think an aggressive villain may fire once to try to move us off the bottom of our range (non set hands). i guess we need more history for that though.

edit: obv an easy fold on the turn though.

[Dex]

[ QUOTE ]
I typically just fold here. Given positions I don't think villain is gonna 4bet light here, so I put him on QQ+, AK for his preflop range, maybe even KK+. This range has us crushed on that flop (even AK has 7 outs, and if we chose to play, AK isn't even putting the rest of the money in). And I really think villain is gonna have aces a lot here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I pretty much agree with this...

This really is a tough spot as hero is often behind, and, even if not, hero's gonna be in a REALLY uncomfortable spot on the river (if not the turn).

Hero stuck 1/7 of his stack in pf, though, so we HAVE to continue on non-K flops sometimes. But, on what non-K flops are you willing to continue? Jxx? Txx? 9xx?

Anyone 5-bet this pf with these stacks vs. this player? If not, when would you 5-bet? (obv with much smaller stacks you would 5-bet push, but what about different 3-bet/4-bet sizes, different positions, different opponent stats, slightly smaller stacks, etc.)