How did you do it? Financial Success Thread

[Taylor Caby]

I like hearing stories about success. They inspire me to work harder and also give me ideas for future endeavors.

Rules: You don't have to be a mega millionaire. You might not even be a millionaire. You might have worked up the corporate ladder, started a business, been gifted 10mil and started a charity, it could be anything. Just tell us your "story" and some things you learned along the way (what worked, what didn't, what you would do differently, goals for the future, etc.).

Looking forward to reading,
tc

[Taylor Caby]

I was fortunate to start playing poker online right before the time when poker became insanely popular. I started playing right around the time moneymaker won, and through a lot of hard work and long hours made well over a million bucks playing in college. just like any other kid who made a lot online, i put in a lot of hours and surely had a lot of luck.

when i was a junior in college some people approached me to start a website to teach others to play poker. the deal fell through and that site never was built. i decided to start something similar a few months later, with a few twists. i got a partner who was also a successful poker player and we started cardrunners.com during the summer after my junior year of college.

we started as a very small community built around my reputation as a successful player and we started to hire some other well known players. i soon realized that it was very important to bring on top notch talent so i tried to get the best players on the internet to be associated with the site. there has been a proliferation of other training sites on the internet, but i think we will always (hopefully!) have a competitive advantage because we will have the best teaching talent.

the site grew from word of mouth mostly. after a few months, we started to advertise on some poker forums and i begrudgingly started to write some articles for poker magazines because it would be good publicity. i learned you have to not be afraid to go out and sell yourself in order for your business to be successful.

eventually we developed a reputation on the internet as being the premier training site on the net (open for debate, but certainly we are one of the top choices). our new goal will be to reach out to different types of players including live players, low stakes players, and tournament players. we are always trying new things and it is exciting adding new aspects to the business edit: i hope it doesn't look like i'm selling the business, just trying to make the point that we are always trying new things and looking to improve what we do - i think that's what makes us a great service).

the business has grown like i never thought it would. through a lot of hard work, persistance, and luck, this business is now just about as profitable as playing high stakes poker online. i have found that running the business is much more exciting than grinding out poker day after day.

what i learned? SO many things.

-don't listen to all the naysayers out there. there are always people who are negative about ideas, no matter how good they are. sure, most businesses fail, but if you have an idea that you believe in and you have done all of your homework and everythign checks out, don't listen to people that say otherwise.

-your reputation is everything. in the business world, you have many tough decisions where it is could be easy to make disparaging remarks about someone else or to get involved in shady situations. you can't fake being a good, honest, trustworthy person. you need to be this person and it will really get you far. just be friendly, approachable, and honest and you will be amazed at how eventually that reputation will be reflected in your business.

-be flexible. i never thought i would be running an internet business when i graduated college. there are some things my business does now that i didn't think we would ever get involved in (different focus/service) but because of the changing environment of poker it made sense to change what we did. the person that can adapt quickly to changes in the environment is the one whose business will find success year after year.

-trust your gut. if you have a bad vibe about something/someone, don't ignore it (goes the other way, too). there are many times where i just had a bad feeling about a certain deal or person but couldn't quite explain why. you don't need a reason to avoid something, it is your business, your choice. also, don't feel bad about saying no. it is hard but a necessary part of running a successful business.

-the most important thing i've learned is that it CAN be done. i now know that i am capable of starting something great and this gives me the confidence i need to keep pushing forward. in a few years i would like to start something new, unrelated to poker. a lot of people have told me "yeah, you did well with CR, but that's just because you were lucky to have a great skill (poker) and it would be a lot harder outside of poker." yeah, maybe some of that is true, but i know a lot of other people who are good at poker and i don't see many of them monetizing that away from the tables (at least to this extent). the time will come when i am ready to prove that the knowledge and skills that i have will be transferable to areas outside of poker. i look forward to that challenge someday. i find that posing challenges to myself like this keeps me hungry.

these are some things i learned...nothing groundbreaking but hope they help some of you.

tc

[NajdorfDefense]

[ QUOTE ]
what i learned? SO many things.
-your reputation is everything. in the business world, you have many tough decisions where it is could be easy to make disparaging remarks about someone else or to get involved in shady situations. you can't fake being a good, honest, trustworthy person. you need to be this person and it will really get you far. just be friendly, approachable, and honest and you will be amazed at how eventually that reputation will be reflected in your business.
tc

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. One of my old professors, a former Fortune 50 CEO said it best in my mind. "Perseverance, Sincerity, Discipline - without these 3 attributes you will not succeed [longterm] in business."
I don't underestimate the personality traits of those who are 'warm and friendly' as well, but I'll invest with a hardworking, honest, run-thru-a-wall manager even if he's not Little Miss Sunshine. The opposite is unlikely to be true.

[El Diablo]

Taylor,

It's hard to emphasize enough how important just actually giving something a shot and then having the perseverence to keep pushing are to the success of a business. Sheer force of will is such a big key to making it.

I'll comment more on your excellent post when I have a little time. Anyone interested in being an entrepeneur should really take your post to heart, it's great.

[raptor517]

nice post, i had no idea the site was so successful. thats awesome! congrats.

[savman]

Great post TC. Two things I would add are the value of personal relationships and setting goals. IMO personal relationships are the second most important aspect of business behind reputation. Setting goals helps you remain focused and motivated. I will write my story when I have more time.

[private joker]

TC,

I wrote my story in this thread.

[Taylor Caby]

Joker,
I pasted this here. Good Story.

This is going to be a long post, but I wouldn’t write it if I didn’t think it was somewhat important. I had some ambivalence over whether or not to even share this much personal information, but I decided that the benefits it will have to many readers outweighs the loss of privacy I’m suffering as a cause. Plus it’s a huge brag.

Chapter 1: pre-2004

I decided to go to a private, fairly expensive graduate school to get my master’s in film production. Afterwards, I moved out to Los Angeles to work in the film & television industry, something I’ve always wanted. I’m a pretty good writer, and it’s what I think I should be doing with my life. Unfortunately, as most people who move out to L.A. know, it’s a tough business. I was already waist-deep in student loans, and I was coming to an expensive city with no job prospects.

To spare you the details, I basically worked for a few years doing odd production jobs and eventually as a script reader for a big movie network. These gigs didn’t pay well at all, and the cost of living was higher than my income. So I pulled out the credit cards and racked up some balances. I didn’t spend any more than I had to, but what I had to spend was still more than I owned. Year after year, the scripts I was writing were getting optioned but not getting made, and I couldn’t hit that big payday. Before I knew it, between the student loans and credit card bills (plus the crappy interest), I was more than 25k in debt. 25k. I felt like crap, and thought it would take me forever to pay it off – if ever. More than the financial pressure, it was a huge black cloud weighing over everything I did… every time I wanted to buy a DVD or go out for a nice dinner or get a new pair of shoes, that nagging debt was a giant brick on my shoulder, and it infested every day I lived. I was fairly miserable, even though I’m generally an optimist.

Chapter 2: 2004

2004 brought a confluence of fortunes. Starting in the summer I got a pretty good job in the casting department of a TV company, which eventually turned into a really good job as a casting director. The other thing was… poker.

Back in 2002, I’d discovered hold’em, and it was a very exciting change from the 5-card draw and wild-card games I played with buddies over beers on a Thursday night. I even took some drives down to Commerce in 2003 to play some 2/4, and discovered that I had a brain for the game. I read some stupid Ken Warren beginner’s book and fixed the huge leaks. And I realized it was a game you could be a long-term winner at. See, I’m a very risk-averse guy and I hate gambling (I never play blackjack or any type of pit/table game; it’s just not in me). But “in gambling, you gotta get lucky to win, and in poker you gotta get unlucky to lose.” This could work.

So in 2004 I was getting more interested in it, and I saw a book by Sklansky & Miller on the shelf. It was SSHE. I read it and it really spoke to me. I changed the way I thought about the game and I started soaking up everything I could, all while making some change at the Commerce 2/4 and 3/6 games. Then in October I went to the website recommended on the back cover of SSHE, twoplustwo.com. I read some strategy posts and freaked out. These guys really think about the game and how to win. It was even more advanced than the book, so I signed on and got involved. This was the beginning…

Chapter 3: 2005

My job as a casting director was paying good, but I had huge credit card payments to make. I was still 25k in debt, and my salary could barely pay the interest plus my rent. Luckily I had stopped adding to the debt, but I wasn’t making anything. In fact, the poker winnings I was making (maybe $50 a week) was what I used to pay for random stuff like movies, girlfriends, etc. Also, none of the people on 2+2 seemed to play the games I did. They were all playing on the internet. I didn’t think that looked like any fun, but what the hell, so I deposited $50 in PartyPoker and started playing .5/1 games. I could have busted the first day but I ran hot and had a few hundred bucks in there in no time, then started playing 2/4 for real.

Then I totaled my car. Ugh. It wasn’t my fault, but the guy who hit me didn’t have insurance, and my lawyer + insurance company both screwed me over and I ended up getting hardly anything for the crash – so now I needed a car. And I was in debt. What now? Enter a saintly 2+2er who knew I was a winning player and staked me to play live 6/12. He gave me a solid bankroll and told me to hit the tables. Around the same time, another very cool poster in the Small Stakes forum liked my brain for poker and staked me to play 3/6 by giving me an extra 1k on Party.

I couldn’t let those guys down, so I focused like never before and played my best game. I spent every day reading the forums, and learned so much about the game from guys like Nate tha’ Great, Schneids, Evan, and CDC, among others. These guys were razor sharp and wrote about poker with the kind of clarity I needed to improve. Within 3 months I paid off the online stake. I kept playing 3/6, and thanks to rakeback and running well, I soon had the 3k necessary to play 5/10. At the same time I was playing hard at the live tables, and thanks to the soft heaven of the Bike 6/12, I was winning big. I moved up to 8/16 and 9/18, and was making more per hour and feeling better about my game.

But by the end of the year, I still felt like I had little to show for it. A lot of my initial profits from live play were going back to the guy who staked me because I wanted to pay him off as soon as possible. I certainly didn’t need to be in debt any more than I was. All my other profits were going to making bank payments. My online roll was growing thanks to the juicy Party 5/10 ring games, but it was just virtual money on a screen. How was I doing so well and not seeing any good results? Nevertheless, I just kept plugging away.

By the end of 2005, I had built my live roll up to a satisfactory point where I could take a shot at the L.A. yellow-chip games. Since I had a full-time job, I could only play a certain number of hours at B&Ms, so I needed to play big enough stakes for it to matter. Enter the 15/30 and 20/40 games. Bingo.

Chapter 4: 2006

Within the first few months of 2006, I had doubled my live bankroll. I paid off my stake completely, and still had enough to play 20/40. Meanwhile, online 5/10 with rakeback was going as good as ever.

And, to add fortune to fortune, I got promoted again into the development department of my company, becoming a television writer. I really felt good about my career and this was having positive effects everywhere. Because I never took my eye off the goal, I didn’t allow my side hobby of poker overtake my career. Work always came first. And since I worked hard, it paid off. Now I had a comfortable salary. I could start chipping away at my debt – or at least not have to eat into my poker income to buy drinks and movie tickets and dinner for my girlfriend.

If any of you have been a live grinder for enough time, you realize that after some time, live play really sucks. Now, after 2 years of it, I was getting really sick of these people. Cocky jerks, sour old grumps, mean-spirited whiners, sore losers, smelly and unhygienic degenerates. And since I was on a roll at 5/10 online, I wondered why in the world I was even playing this slow, boring, irritating game. Enough with B&Ms!

By this point, I had about 13k in my live roll. I was 25k in debt. I decided to destroy my live roll and stick to online poker. I took out 10k and paid off some loans. In one fell swoop, I was now only 15k in debt. Still a lot, but definitely more manageable. Meanwhile, I’m reading posts from all these ballas earning 6-7 figures a year with poker and spending what I owe in debts in one day on TVs and hookers. I feel like a micro-stakes loser, but I don’t let it get to me. Good for them, but the meager stakes I’m winning mean a lot to me. Bets are bets. So now it was time off from live play and hardcore online grinding. I was 4-tabling almost every night after work, and soon worked up to 10/20.

Then, just when online was “clicking” like never before, the sky fell. Bill Frist rammed his foot up our collective asses. It was late 2006 and I had built up a 10k roll on Party (after some cashouts for expenses, etc.). I decided to say f*ck it and cash everything out. No more online at all. I’ve seen the mid-limit games on Full Tilt and Stars, and they can blow me.

I cashed out. Now, I had about 13-15k in poker money sitting around. You know what? I can almost pay off all my debts! But that would leave me broke. Dead broke. And hey, it takes money to make money. So I decided to take 10k of it and pay off the credit cards. Man, that felt good. But I still was in the red for 5k, and I only had a few thousand bucks to play poker with. No problem, right?

Chapter 5: The End

I took my meager bankroll and started playing live again, after a 3-month hiatus. The 8/16 tables were absurdly soft – I mean come on, I was used to 20/40 live and 10/20 online, so this was like autopilot again. It gave me my B&M confidence back, and before I could blink I had barely enough to play 15/30. But would I?

A voice in my left ear said I could pay off all my debts and walk away clean. It will feel great, the voice said. But another voice said: “You’re only 5k in debt, and you need a 10k bankroll to play 20/40. Why not have faith in your skills and play poker until you get a 15k bankroll? Then you can pay off your remaining debts and still have ten dimes to sit on, using as a nice cushion for yellow chip games?” I would kill myself if I ran bad and didn’t pay off the debts when I could, but I figured this was my best chance to really get started in a positive financial direction.

So I spent the end of 2006 and January of this year (only 3 weeks thus far) playing mad poker. I had 2 weeks of vacation time from work in December and absolutely clobbered the fish at Commerce. Then I went to Palm Springs and Arizona, and clobbered fish there too. I was in a zone and was destined to make my goal. I worked hard every weekday at my job, then went down to Commerce at night to get a few hours in. By Tuesday night, Jan. 16, I had 14.5k in my roll. Only $500 to go. But that can take a month. One session can have you down a dime, and then it takes 15 more sessions to grind it back. Not this time.

Tonight, Thursday Jan. 18, I went to Hawaiian Gardens and sat in a juicy 20/40 game. I made a wheel with a suited ace-rag, I made aces up in a big pot, and I turned a set of tens to finish off a nice session that had me in the black $590. I did it. I reached my goal.

I drove home, did my calculations, and double-checked that I had 15k in poker monies. I did. I went online to BankofAmerica and paid off the last of my debts. Every last cent. And I still have 10k – all sitting there to cushion me for even more play. Why? Because now it’s all profit. It’s all juice. I can start saving. I’m in the f*cking BLACK and I can start SAVING!

I moved into a new apartment this month, living on my own off the Sunset Strip. I even bought a new sofa with poker money (so I guess I would have had 11k haha). My cat is on my lap and I’m sipping on the best rum and coke I’ve ever had, looking out over the lights of downtown. Because after over 2 years of hard work and focus, I paid off a daunting $25,000-debt with a little card game called hold’em. I’m a new man, I love my job, I love my friends, and I’m free of all the weight of the past. Poker is only partially luck, but whatever element there is, I wish you guys all the luck that I’ve had.

Thanks for reading.

Cliff Notes: thanks to hard work, smart bankroll management

[lippy]

I would love to hear El D's story.

The two so far have been fascinating.

[mntbikr15]

[ QUOTE ]
I would love to hear El D's story.

The two so far have been fascinating.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seconded.

Hopefully in another year or two I can come back to this thread and have something to offer. My site was just launched this week.

The one thing I can pass on that maybe is some use though is that you should plan on ALOT more time for the project to be completed then you imagined it would take.

Every door I open seems to open up to ten more. Just keep plugging away at it.

-Evan