JJ c/r on flop, bet into on turn

[Profish2285]

Villain is unknown. I just called his flop c/r because I figured it was more than likely a ten and I didnt want to push him off his hand. However, it also could be a set. I didnt see him get too out of line so I didnt think it was draw. What does everyone do here and who likes a flop 3 bet? I was then thinking about raising on the turn so I guess we can discuss that too.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $41.25
SB: $40.75
BB: $31.40
Hero (UTG): $38.55
MP: $6.05
CO: $25

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $0.85</font>, SB calls $0.75

Flop: ($1.95) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $1.50</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $4</font>, Hero calls $2.50

Turn: ($9.95) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $5</font>, Hero calls $5

River: ($19.95) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero...</font>

[Milky]

Any reads? How loose is he pf? Does he call a lot of pfraises w/weak hands? Are you sure this isn't a draw? Do you have stats for him? Kind of tough to answer without more info but I'm thinking flop 3bet and fold to a 4bet might be okay?

[Profish2285]

I dont have stats and he hasnt been at the table long. In general I dont like 3 betting to fold to a 4 bet b/c by that point I would have so much invested that I almost have to make a crying call dont you think?

[TilTandWiN]

Dont like to 3b on flop - every hand you beat folds (supposing villan is decent) and you cant call a shove - however it is probably the cheapest way to find out where you stand. The turn situation is so ugly that 3bing the flop doesnt seem like shuch a bad idea. My thoughts on the turn are really marginal - folding is pretty weak (but easily possible if you have any stats on him), raising will tell you where you are in the hand/give you control on the river (if he calls) but if we plan to raise the turn we should have 3b the flop IMO (as it is far cheaper way of doing the same thing), calling seems ok but folding to a large river bet. Without a read im really stuck! HELP ME &amp; OP.

[Tanky]

I think a flop 3 bet may be a bit thin here. I think youre probably looking at QQ JJ ATs JTs T9s a set or air trying to push you off AK. His turn lead looks weakish here. On the river i would check behind, i think the only one pair hand that calls the river is QQ, and anything we beat folds.

[Profish2285]

You dont think alot of tens call a 1/2 pot river bet here? If I raise his turn bet btw Im not folding as by that point I have committed a very large portion of my stack. The reason I say this is because if I raise the turn, its not for information, its purely for value.

[Tanky]

[ QUOTE ]
You dont think alot of tens call a 1/2 pot river bet here? If I raise his turn bet btw Im not folding as by that point I have committed a very large portion of my stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm possibly, maybe timebank it down then throw a "weak" bluff out.

[TilTandWiN]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont have stats and he hasnt been at the table long. In general I dont like 3 betting to fold to a 4 bet b/c by that point I would have so much invested that I almost have to make a crying call dont you think?

[/ QUOTE ]
You are far far too deep to call any 4b just because you 3b - you can make your 3b to $7.5 or $8 if you want (super cheap) and that will still provide you with the same info. If he calls you 3b, check behind on turn, fold to river bet (of decent size(&gt;2/3 pot) (maby less actually)). Does that line seem standard to everyone?

[Hail Eris]

This is fine. Bet like $10 on the river.

[Kasane]

I'd rather raise the turn than the flop. On the flop, we're flipping with a lot of draws, even ones that SB might think aren't (like Kx suited or Qx suited) -- or worse, an actual dog to 2 overcards.

We're deep enough for either a flat call or a raise/fold on the turn (I think, not doing the calc on the fly). I like a raise so uncomfortable cards like QKA on the river don't bother me so much. I can check behind on the river having comfortably gotten what value I can from villain if he calls the turn raise.

I don't hate a call on the turn to control the pot. I'd value bluff the river 1/2 pot.