10NL - is there value on the river? 2 hands.............

[MrWooster]

I think that it is very easy for us to just check the river with a good, but not premium hand, which leads to us missing a lot of value on the river sometimes. 2 hands I played today, is there any value on these rivers? And if so, how much do you bet?

Hand 1:

Villain is 25/8/0.3Prima Network No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

MP ($8.30)
CO ($16.10)
Button ($8.49)
SB ($1.78)
BB ($9.71)
Hero ($19.38)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $0.4</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $0.40, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls $0.30.

Flop: ($1.25) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $0.9</font>, CO folds, BB calls $0.90.

Turn: ($3.05) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1.9</font>, BB calls $1.90.

River: ($6.85) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero ...


Hand 2:

Villain is 66/24/4

Prima Network No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

BB ($23.46)
UTG ($4.90)
MP ($5.45)
Hero ($10.40)
SB ($18.81)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.10.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG (poster) bets $0.3</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $0.5</font>, SB calls $0.45, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $0.30.

Flop: ($1.70) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $0.2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, SB calls $2, UTG folds.

Turn: ($5.90) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4.05</font>, SB calls $4.05.

River: ($14) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero ...

[Lego05]

Pre-flop sucks in the second hand. Don't minraise pre-flop...raise bigger. And in the first hand your turn bet is kinda small.



I probably shove the first hand but check in the second one.




Edit:

In the first one I believe it's a high liklihood he has a T and JT-KT seem likely. He checked all 3 streets so he doesn't seem like he has better than TPTK.

In the second one a flush draw seems very likely to me which can easily come with an ace expecially raising UTG pre-flop and even if he doesn't have an ace he's not calling with a busted flush draw and I can't think of much that you beat that will call most of the time especially with that ace out there on the river now.

[samurai_jack]

I think I have the same problem as you, because I find both of these to be tought spots.

1) A bigger preflop bet would've been nice in case he decided to stretch a bit and play 45s, but I think a $4 bet on the river would be good.

2) With those stats and all the checking I think you have to check.

[hockeyf]

1) Value
2) Value

[MrWooster]

I did not minraise the first hand - its 10NL and I bet 0.40 - thats 4xBB which is my standard UTG raise.

[Aceium]

There might be a little bit of value on the first hand, but only if he'll call another bet with JT-KT. Other than that most of his range will have made some kind of two pair, or he was on a draw and managed not to hit - so he isn't calling anyway.

On the second hand I might bet on the river. It's unlikely that the A helped him, unless he's playing a hand like A6 or A7. But I think he might be raising you with those stats. More likely I think his hand is some kind of connector that hit a pair or a pair and a flush draw. I can see villan calling you with worse hands on this river, but not much worse.

If you make any decent bet, you are pretty much going all in. In that respect, I would be wary that villan must be REALLY bad to get all in with a hand that you have beat here.

[DawnToDusk]

Hand 1

I don't think there is any real value on the river here. We might be ahead of some hands like AT, KT, or something like QTs/JTs given his PF hand ranges and how the hand played out, but I don't think you are going to get a lot to call you now that the four to a straight is up there. The player is pretty passive but if you do bet and he raises you (which would seem pecuilar to me given his stats) you have to fold. The player may fold a lot on the river too. So given the fact that if you bet you may A)get raised off your VB and 2)the hands that you are ahead of will fold sometimes because of the four to a straight on board seems like it is barely +EV if it is at all.

Hand 2

Do you have any more info on the vill? Is he cold-calling 3bets pretty light? If he is there could be an arguement for value betting this river. Its not the best card but the lighter he is calling 3bets PF the more inclined I would be VB. Also he is super aggro so it makes me think that he missed clubs even more. I feel like if he had Acxc and got to the river we might see a donk bet out of him (then again I could be wrong).

[DawnToDusk]

Huh. Looks like a raise, minraise. It says UTG bets .30?

[MrWooster]

[ QUOTE ]
Huh. Looks like a raise, minraise. It says UTG bets .30?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah - looks live converter screwed up - he did not bet, he posted - I raised 4xBB +1 for his UTG post of $0.10 (not $0.30).