Are games at US-friendly sites still fair?

[William]

Someone posted in another thread that because of the difficulties US players are having depositing funds, sites still accepting US players have an interest in them not going broke.

I don't know if it is possible having a serious discussion about such a subject without this thread developing into a "the sites are rigged" thread, (I guess not, we'll have to filter as usual) but shouldn't we be concerned that after all, online sites are not there to please us but to make money?
It's not like we have never seen companies behave bad (poker or no poker).

Personally my win rate has dropped drastically and the 5/6 friends I have talked to about this, all very decent winners in the past, have been affected the same way (we are Europeans and, at least in my eyes, this is hard evidence that win rates have changed because it's people I personally know, not some unknown poster in a forum).

Get stucked situations (you hold AK, flop AK4, somebody else has trips 4 for example) seem to be more common, but that is my own experience, I could be running bad. However, as I am not the "loose" type and normally if you get involved in a hand against me, you better hope somebody is listening to your prays up there, this is the only way I am going to lose my money (or lose back what I was winning).

On the sites defense, games at the non-US-friendly sites have also become tougher. Not as much as on the US-friendly ones though.

[gila]

They are all rigged, no doubt about it. You should know that by now.

[BluffTHIS!]

William,

You should as a regular on 2+2, and thus someone who presumably has read GT&OT and related mathematical articles/books on bankroll and winrate and variance, etc., know what is happening overall, and especially to limit HE (and no although I'm a big bet only player I'm not ragging on limit players).

The games got tougher, and in fact very tough. Yet you continued to play, thus exercising poor game selection. Not being able to exercise better game selection doesn't mean you aren't in fact exercising poor game selection. So your winrate went down, and that means your variance will go up. THAT is the explanation for your predicament, and it does NOT raise the ridiculous question of whether the games are "fair" or not (i.e. not rigged).

So basically you've been forced to take a pay cut and become a min-wage worker. So either get a new job (which if you want to stay in the poker industry probably means NLHE whether you like it or not), or accept your new lower wage. Just don't become another "it's rigged" poster.

[William]

For your info, I have always been a NLHE player.

Also, I played poker for many years before it was available online and unfortunately, I know what kind of people are attracted to poker. Most of you only know what the screen shows you.

Let me refrase: Assuming that things don't get better is there a point where you believe that sites could contemplate becoming dishonest or will they just accept that their bussiness is not what it has been anymore? (as we should IYHP).

[Gregg777]

[ QUOTE ]
The games got tougher, and in fact very tough.

[/ QUOTE ]

^^ This is your answer period.


If you don't crush your current level, and you insist on playing right now, drop down a level or take a break until the payment issues are worked out.

(I am taking a break and working on some business matters for a week or two.)

Regarding your question about sites resulting to something shady, no, I seriously doubt it. As long as they have traffic and are getting rake, why should they?

The only thing I see happening, which has actually already happened at least once, is that some small sites might not have enough reason to continue and simply shut their doors and keep the money.

But to keep operating in a shady manner? Makes no sense.

[BluffTHIS!]

William,

I saw a comment by you railing against a poster ragging on LHE players so I didn't realize you played NL. But the fact is the sites don't ever need to rig anything because they still get the rake no matter how tough and barely beatable a game may be for the player.

[HSB]

The sites that continue to accept US players have seen their player base increase since the bill was signed.

A site isn't going to decide that it should rig things because they just got bigger.

[King Kong]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone posted in another thread that because of the difficulties US players are having depositing funds, sites still accepting US players have an interest in them not going broke.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get this. If anything it would be the other way around, and the winrate poll would seem to support that. Why would PS want to p'off non-US-players and risk losing their business to non-US-friendly sites at this stage of the game?

[William]

Dude, I agree with you.
Unfortunately, I also know what humans are capable of when money and personal interests are involved and I have to consider all options, also the ugly ones.

[HSB]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude, I agree with you.
Unfortunately, I also know what humans are capable of when money and personal interests are involved and I have to consider all options, also the ugly ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rigging things in favor of American players isn't an ugly option, it's a stupid option. American players are less likely to go elsewhere because there are less elsewheres to go to. If the sites were going to rig things, they would rig them in favor of the non Americans.

The whole notion is a load of hooey regardless.