Defense against the set?

[Skleice]

I know we all love to flop a set. To me it is the most sneaky of all hands. But how do you defend against it? I just had my top 2 pair crushed by a set of 4's online. I raised 3x bb preflop and got one caller. I flop two pair which is great. He bets into me and I call, hoping to extract more money on 4th street. Turn comes and he bets out again. I'm putting him on a pair with the board and a good kicker. I reraise and goes all in. I have no choice to call (getting good odds) and he turns up a set of 4's. How to defend against this? Thanks.

[Seether]

Get better at rivering full houses.

[TheBlueMonster]

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Get better at rivering full houses.

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Harrington on Holdem 4 is going to cover that

[Skleice]

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Get better at rivering full houses.

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Thanks for the deep insight..I'll work on that!

[Webster]

I lost THREE sets last night for a $400 swing. What the other guys did to beat me was.

Two guys chased me with an inside straight draw and won and the other guy got a back door flush with bottom pair.

Worked pretty good for them LOL

[Skleice]

It is such a tricky hand to beat...especially when you are very strong. Say you raise preflop with AA and get called. The board contains str8 or flush possibilities so you bet out a little over half the pot to blow their odds to draw, but hoping they caught some kind of pair. Turn is a blank so you bet again and get called again. Now there is a good sized pot and the river is a blank. Even if you check the river because you fear you could be up against a set, could you really lay down your AA to a bet on the river? Is this just one of those hands you go broke on and just accept it? I know Phil Hellmuth can make this lay down...but I'm not him.

[Elverian]

I will often call an early raise with a small/mid pair, in the hope that the raiser has a premium pair and I spike a set. The implied odds are worth it - even at 7.5:1 against, as long as we are both deep stacked.

The defence is as follows - but it's not infallible, from bitter experience!!
1st rule - note the players that limp with these or flat call raises with them - forewarned is fore-armed
2nd - don't build big pots with a marginal hand against these players. I would class marginal as top pair or bottom 2 pair - too easily sucked out on.

Golden rule - play big pots with big hands, and small pots with marginal ones.

If you keep the pot as small as possible, until you are SURE you are winning, he can't extract too much out of you without a huge overbet - which you can lay down to.

In your example, the reraise is probably not wise on the turn, especially as you were pot committed to his all in.

I know this sounds very rockish, but you will make plenty with your legitimately strong hands, or on those rare occasions when you are called by a lower pp and you both make sets. Which is when the 'spike a set' plan backfires in a big way.

Your other alternative, is to sit down with a smaller stack, so that the implied odds with the small pair are not there for your opponent. I personally don't like this approach, as you limit your upside as well.

[creamfillin]

Do you guys ever lay down an overpair (AA,KK,QQ) on a safe flop when faced with an all in fearing someone fast playing their set?

[Elverian]

Hi,

I will do if they've limped in to my preflop raise. But only if it is a big overbet.

The problem, is flops like K85 and you hold AA, is that some players will make that play with AK.

On a flop of say, 984, that possibility does not exist - you then have to decide if they are betting an overpair to the board, but lower than yours. KK,QQ would probably reraise preflop, that leaves only JJ and TT that you are feasibly beating - so it is probably correct to fold IMO.

[Skleice]

I guess, like everything in poker, it is situational. Am I playing a guy that is solid or a guy that will lose all his money with his top pair (or J's let's say) to a higher overpair or two pair. In that case, I love pushing my overpair and getting paid off. Or am I playing a guy that can get away from top pair. And how do these players view me? Do they give me credit for a hand or not?

The trouble with the set and a board with draws, is that you're trying to bet for value and protect your hand to destroy their odds to draw. This ofcourse creates a larger pot which then puts you in the situation that Elverian was referring to. I guess if the board had no real draws, and my oppenent was betting aggressively, I can put him on a set or 2 pair and realize I'm beat.

-I have laid down KK's after a harmless flop realizing that my opponent has AA.