LT AP's MVP

[CharlieDontSurf]

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I'm a Saints fan and I disagree. Not only was Peyton better in the numbers, the Colts O was better than the Saints O, and he's more responsible for that offense than anyone is to any offense.

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Its Brees easy.

Peyton has been in the same offensive system for years with the same WR's, oline etc, coach, etc. Everything is the same cept for Edge and losing his TE mid season and #3 WR.

Bree's coming off shoulder surgery, on a new team, with all new teammates, 1 WR with any solid NFL game expierence, a team and town in total dissaray, a brand new 1st time head coach, a rookie RB, a RB coming off surgery from last year etc etc. Brees was more valuable to his team than Peyton was. But the MVP award isn't about that so it doesn't really matter.

The mainnegative is he plays in the NFC while Peyton is in the AFC.

[CharlieDontSurf]

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You don't think peyton could have done a better job than brees with that saints team?

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We assume something like this to be true but we have no way of knowing if it is the case. Peyton has played in a system with the same coach, wr, great line, etc for awhile now.

I have a hard time believing that Peyton is so awesome that he is the same QB on any team no matter what the personel, coaching, system etc. I would think the same of just about any QB in the league

[SL__72]

So essentially you are arguing that because Peyton knows his offensive system better then Brees knows his, Brees is more valuable?

[TheNoodleMan]

Peyton basically is what Bonds used to be, a guy that deserves MVP pretty much every year but the writers don't want to give it to the same guy every year.

[wheatrich]

I don't understand the argument that Manning should be MVP just because most other NFL QB's are horrible. This is the not the most valuable player relative to people who suck.

I also don't understand the claims that replace LT with someone who sucks and they'd still be 14-2. They improved by 5 games this season and got worse at the QB position. Even with a solid backup like Turner they would have dropped minimum 2 games (too hard to determine the actual number IMO to bother with that).

[Fallen Hero]

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I don't understand the argument that Manning should be MVP just because most other NFL QB's are horrible. This is the not the most valuable player relative to people who suck.

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so Manning isn't great, it's just that everyone else doesn't know how to play QB?

[lastchance]

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I don't understand the argument that Manning should be MVP just because most other NFL QB's are horrible. This is the not the most valuable player relative to people who suck.

I also don't understand the claims that replace LT with someone who sucks and they'd still be 14-2. They improved by 5 games this season and got worse at the QB position. Even with a solid backup like Turner they would have dropped minimum 2 games (too hard to determine the actual number IMO to bother with that).

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Manning is probably worth about 4 (I think this is fairly correct) wins a year over an average quarterback (think Brett Favre, or Eli Manning).

LT is probably worth about 2 to 3 wins a year (and I think I'm being generous) over an average running back (Ahman Green, for example). SD is still going to be a very good running team behind their awesome O-Line and Lorenzo Neal even with an average RB.

Do you disagree?

Peyton Manning is probably at least a full win better than any other QB in the league, I don't think any other player, at any other position comes close.

Edit: Replaced 5 or 6 with 4, I think that's a better estimate.

[Vyse]

I'm not going to read the entire thread -- read the first four pages -- but LMAO @ LT's MVP.

It really isn't close. WOW, HE HAD 31 TDS? Not nearly as important as you think. TDs are overrated.

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Running back is probably the most overrated position in football, but that doesn't make it unimportant. Consider this, Peyton passed the ball 557 times this season and LDT touched the ball just over 400 times. If you were to assume Peyton was going to gain the same number of yards per attempt that LDT does per touch, Peyton would obviously be more important because LDT only gets 70% as many touches. Now if you add factor in the extra 2+ yards per touch Peyton gets, its just not close anymore."

That basically sums up everything. This is inarguable. Manning is loads better than any other player in the NFL. QB is the most important position by far in the NFL, and again, it's not close. They have the most touches, and therefore the most impact on the game. Just as importantly, QB is a MUCH harder position to replace than any other position in football. RBs are very fungible -- they are almost entirely dependent on their offensive line and blocking scheme. QBs are not. You can easily platoon RBs and end up with an above-average RB tandem. Not so with QBs.

People take Manning's greatness for granted. He should have four or five MVPs by now. He is the greatest player in the history of the NFL, and it's a shame he is not hyped as much.

[Kevin]

Cross posted from the Colts/Chiefs game, but I thought that this one stat emphasized the greatness of Peyton Manning more than any other that I have seen:

Bob Kravitz from Indy Star had this interesting stat today:

Since 1978 there have been 40 teams that have given up more than 2500 rushing yards in a single season. 39 have missed the playoffs. The exception: You 2006 Indianapolis Colts

[Pudge714]

People who say the MVP shouldn't just be the guy with the highest DVOA or DPAR. I agree. If two people are close Peyton is #1 by so much that it not much else should be considered.
Look at baseball MVP threads guys didn't say he should be MVP because his VORP or WARP are the highest by 3 runs. All of these stats have flaws in the sense they cannot perfectly capture a players value, but these stats do much better jobs than stats like TDs.
People who say obviously QB's are more valuable than RB's, but it's unfair to always give them the MVP. Either they are voting for an award which isn't MVP or they are borderline retarded.
CDS the Saints would be better with Peyton and some of the stuff you mentioned such as Brees coming off shoulder surgery are irrelevant when discussing MVP.
Also Noodleman hit it right on the head.