Sorry - last one for today

[PokerJans]

UTG and BB have been playing every hand. UTG limps, and then a non-retard raises in MP. I called with K7h in the SB knowing that BB and UTG will come along.

This is probably a losing play right? For whatever reason I have this idea in my mind that I can call LP raises from the SB with marginal holdings because I can check-raise flops and take control of hands where it is appropriate.

643 flop with two hearts. I plan to check raise the original raiser but my plan is spoiled.

Check, check, bet, raise, I call two, fold, call

2 hearts - check, check, bet, I raise, UTG calls two, and original raiser calls

8 hearts - bet, call, and not original raiser pops me. I should really fold here but I dont and call.

[Ricks]

I don't think you have enough players to make the pf call unless you know that they will call all kinds of bets with very little. You need a lot of implied odds.

I would never fold a king high flush on this river. Your hand will be good here more than enough times to make your call correct. It is closer to a raise than a fold.

[James.]

fold pf.

on the turn, i would bet out. it will trap alot of the field between you and the pf/flop raiser. he may even raise again and let you 3bet. checkraising is going to blow away the field. why would you want to do that with such a strong hand?

on the river, don't make a habit of questioning a "crying call" like this, as they are clearly profitable given the pot size and your hand strength. in fact, a call with a considerably worse hand could be correct against a decent amount of opponents.

making big folds in small stakes limit hold em is a good way give away a fair number of pots over time. you have the concept backwards. easy fold preflop and easy call on the river. the first one surrenders your posted small blind, the second one surrenders the entire pot.

[SeaEagle]

Jeez, dude, if you're willing to fold your flush for one bet on the river in a big pot, you really have to evaluate why you got involved in the hand in the first place. What hand were you hoping to make that could stand a raise?

[Christian_Peters]

****Grunch

[ QUOTE ]

This is probably a losing play right?


[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. BB is marginally losing, but is still not good. I'd rather have a hand like 97s, or T8s.


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643 flop with two hearts. I plan to check raise the original raiser but my plan is spoiled.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you want to c/r the flop. Your K outs are probably not good, and you'd rather keep the two fishy's in. Why not bet/3-bet to build a big pot with a big flush draw and a gutshot?

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8 hearts - bet, call, and not original raiser pops me. I should really fold here but I dont and call.

[/ QUOTE ]

How big's the pot? I'd have to be getting <12:1 to consider folding here.

[PokrLikeItsProse]

[ QUOTE ]

I would never fold a king high flush on this river. Your hand will be good here more than enough times to make your call correct. It is closer to a raise than a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Although I've never played with someone who was that tight, I wouldn't be shocked if there are players out there who would never raise the river with four hearts on the board unless they held the ace of hearts (or had a better hand....a straight flush is possible). Some of those players will be playing small stakes hold em.

It's an obvious fold against a super-nit who never bluffs, but you're usually not going to know a player well enough to make that fold, so for all practical purposes it's a mandatory "crying" call.

I just say this to illustrate the point that you shouldn't play small stakes hold em under the assumption that your opponents are fungible donkeys. Some players are more predictable than others. In this situation, the theoretical case where you should fold has a very small probability, but other scenarios may be different.

And, yeah, it's a fold pre-flop.

[Frond]

If your read on the MP Non-Retard is correct, your postion and hand, then yes you can fold this PF.

[shane88888]

[ QUOTE ]
making big folds in small stakes limit hold em is a good way give away a fair number of pots over time.

[/ QUOTE ]

And a great way to set yourself on monkey tilt, esp. if you're live and seeing 30 hands/hour as opposed to 300 an hour online.

[Xhad]

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How big's the pot? I'd have to be getting <12:1 to consider folding here.

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One could go over the action and determine that.

I think a more interesting question is how big a heart you need to call. The second nuts is a bit much as people will raise other big hearts here, though I think you could fold T9s for sure and possibly a jack.

[Chipspin]

[ QUOTE ]
making big folds in small stakes limit hold em is a good way give away a fair number of pots over time. you have the concept backwards. easy fold preflop and easy call on the river. the first one surrenders your posted small blind, the second one surrenders the entire pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

This concept is gold. It's weird how few players understand it.