50 NL Tough Spot With KK

Mike Kelley · #1 09-15-2007, 11:35 PM

Villain is miss.miss.mary 17/6/2.45 over 1000 hands she or he is up about $115

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($27.85)
BB ($51.65)
UTG ($21.25)
UTG+1 ($50.75)
MP1 ($11.35)
MP2 ($51.95)
CO ($36.05)
Hero ($62.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, CO calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.5, SB calls $2.25, 1 fold, CO folds.

Flop: ($6) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5, SB calls $5.

Turn: ($16) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($16) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $14.5, Hero???

Was checking the turn after the flush completed correct?

Should I of b/f the turn?

justscott · #2 09-15-2007, 11:50 PM

scratch that.

mmctrab · #3 09-16-2007, 09:46 AM

This has happened to me several times in the past couple of days. I don't think villain has the flush. But, when you check, villain thinks he can try to bluff you off the hand. It's also happened when there was no flush draw that came in, and I checked the turn for pot control purposes. But it makes it hard to know where you are in the hand, so my new default in these situations is bet/fold the turn.

Mike Kelley · #4 09-16-2007, 11:18 AM

It seemed like an awfully big bet for a bluff. Seemed more like frustrated VB to me, it was like 97% of the pot

If you bet the turn and they call how do you play the river? The pot was 14.50 on the turn if I bet 8-10 and she calls the river is 30.50-34.50 and she has between 10.00 and 12.00 left?

Do you fold getting those pot odds when she open shoves on the river?

Mike Kelley · #5 09-16-2007, 04:55 PM

Help Please?

mmctrab · #6 09-16-2007, 05:52 PM

Sorry, been out all day. The river bet is less than a PSB so I'm not convinced it's not a bluff. If you bet the turn and get called, in this situation I think you're going to have to call a bet on the river. It's a difficult spot to be in with just a one pair hand.

In the cases that I've run into recently, I think if I would've bet the turn they would've folded because when I called their river bets they were most of the time bluffs. it would be nice to here from a few other players on this subject though.

xxrod17xx · #7 09-16-2007, 06:05 PM

This is a really tough spot, but a lot more hands are calling you on the flop than just a FD. I think I bet the turn about 2/3s and fold to a raise. This lets me get value on all Q hands. Also the 6 fills a pair for OESD and fills a straight with 23 (which 78 gets there on the river, which i would seriously consider in the villans range). I think I would bet here on the turn because it does a lot of things for me in the pot. It enables me to seriously thin the villans range down to a flush, small straight or a Q. If i get called I probably check the river which will put me in a tough spot, I probably fold to large river bets and call a smaller one I think a Q will check behind making your turn bet good because it got you max value for your overpair.

As played I fold the river, everything you could be afraid of got there. Its a large bet which can often be a bluff, but I am finding that big river bets are bluffs much less frequently than they used to be.

Now I am not experienced with the player or the play at 50NL so I cant comment on exactly how I would play the hand because I am not playing at that limit. The player seems pretty tight, not really that agressive so they probably dont raise a Q on the flop or a FD which truly makes this a tough spot.

Larude · #8 09-16-2007, 06:22 PM

I don't think this sort of a player is calling with small SC's from the SB; AJs, JTs are the only real possibilities IMHO. Is this the kind of person which could just call with AA or AKs from the SB? Villain is aggressive enough postflop to play flushdraws hard I guess... Just like sets... All in all difficult situation. On the turn if you bet you are potcommitted (I think SPR will tell you the same story); checking the turn induces bluffs which is somewhat better if you are potcommitted when you bet...

A Q is check/calling the river unless villain thinks Q is no good and she is turning her hand into a bluff. If you call I expect to see AJs or JTs, 88-TT-JJ; a set probably would have lead on the turn. I wouldn't blame you for calling or folding either way, reads about her bluffcapacity would certainly come in handy!! I lean towards calling because the board is so scary...

MarcusT · #9 09-17-2007, 05:33 AM

I like the check behind on turn for pot control. If he has anything he would shove, if he has nothing he folds. On river you must call a reasonable bet because you induced him to bluff by checking turn, which is the case here imo.

HesseJam · #10 09-17-2007, 05:44 AM

Tough spot at the river. Having reads about river bahaviour pays off here. It doesnt really matter what you do here if you do not have a read.

I would often 2nd barrel the turn here because of the FD since he might be afraid of it as much as you are. And he might call if he has a high heart. And he probably won't bluff the river if he whiffs because you have position. I would fold to resistance at the turn.