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  #1  
Old 11-25-2007, 07:41 PM
pohuist pohuist is offline
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Default Huge pot with heavy flop action

20-40 live 10 handed. Very sweet game with several players playing close to 100% of the hands and calling the flop regardless of the number of bets with nothing. (Catching runner-runner every now and then).

UTG fish raises (his raises are solid while calls are not). 5 cold calls to hero in SB w/7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero calls. BB calls.
8 to the flop 16 SB. Flop: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Checked to UTG who bets. One of the described above players calls in UTG +1. A LAG in UTG +2 raises. 3 next players call 2 cold. Hero? How about raise PF?
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  #2  
Old 11-25-2007, 08:28 PM
ssmallz ssmallz is offline
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Default Re: Huge pot with heavy flop action

raise pf accomplishes nothing, calling here is right play. The problem with this hand comes from the fact that you dont know how many outs you have. a 7 could make someone else a strait or a better 2 pair. theres also the matter of reverse implied odds. How solid is utg? If he's got AQ or better you're looking at paying 3 bets to call. You're getting 13:1 immediate and I think you have about 4 outs. You'll likely get another 2 bets outta utg and the limper b/c neither is likely to fold. The only question is whether or not he will 3 bet often enough to make this an incorrect call. If UTG had any brains I feel like you're going to get 3 bet more often than not but thats a pretty big if. Theres also the idea that hitting your outs still leaves you vulnerable to many redraws and your only real safe draw is the runner runner flush. I think you can prolly get away w/a call here but is very close to a fold
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  #3  
Old 11-25-2007, 08:39 PM
GoodCallYouWin GoodCallYouWin is offline
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Default Re: Huge pot with heavy flop action

You've got 7 outs or so with the two back door draws but because you are drawing to 2 pair / trips they are somewhat discounted. getting 12:1 I'd probably call.
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  #4  
Old 11-25-2007, 08:42 PM
dcb777 dcb777 is offline
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Default Re: Huge pot with heavy flop action

I would fold in this spot. Your outs are all possibly tainted (the 7 making a straight), (the six making someone better trips), and your backdoor 22-1 diamond draw could be dead. You also should consider that you are not closing the action and the pot can still be raised and re-raised behind you. All this added up makes this a pretty easy fold actually.
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  #5  
Old 11-25-2007, 10:39 PM
Moemar Moemar is offline
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Default Re: Huge pot with heavy flop action

Fold it. Just be patient at a table like this
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  #6  
Old 11-26-2007, 12:44 AM
RobA RobA is offline
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Default Re: Huge pot with heavy flop action

fold > call.

you have 5 outs for 2-pair but a few are tainted, and also a bd flush and straight (each worth 1.5 outs per ed miller). that all adds up to maybe 5-6 clean outs. and you're getting around 12-1 to peel here. i don't care if the math seems to say call. this game is obviously good, so you can find much better spots to get your money in. don't call here where lots of the time you improve it will be to a 2nd place hand.

(the only way you can call is if you can play really well after the call. IMO that means you realize you are peeling for a 5, or a diamond, or maybe a 6. it means that if you hit a 7 you do nothing more than check/call the turn. if you hit a 7 then end up losing 3BB on the turn and river to a straight then you weren't good enought to call the flop action.)
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  #7  
Old 11-27-2007, 12:16 PM
pohuist pohuist is offline
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Default Re: Huge pot with heavy flop action

[ QUOTE ]
fold > call.

you have 5 outs for 2-pair but a few are tainted, and also a bd flush and straight (each worth 1.5 outs per ed miller). that all adds up to maybe 5-6 clean outs. and you're getting around 12-1 to peel here.
the only way you can call is if you can play really well after the call. IMO that means you realize you are peeling for a 5, or a diamond, or maybe a 6. it means that if you hit a 7 you do nothing more than check/call the turn. if you hit a 7 then end up losing 3BB on the turn and river to a straight then you weren't good enought to call the flop action.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Rob, that's the kind of analysis I was looking for. I got 2.5 folds and 2.5 calls from the field, so neither action is particularly bad. Thank you guys. Even though the game was great, it was my last orbit as I was very tired.

I figured I had between 4 and 5 outs discounting b/d draws because they are not to the nuts and heavily discounting 7. I expected a 3 bet but not 4 bet making a call w/5 outs correct and a call w/4 incorrect and ultimately decided to call. It was 3 bet and called by everybody as I expected.

A 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] rolled on a turn giving me 1 card straight draw and putting 2 flush on the board. UTG bet with everybody(!) calling (but no raies, so I was not afraid of 7-9). The river was a beautiful 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] completing my straight. I bet and got a crying call from UTG, frustrated fold from good player and a call from a girl playing 100% of her hands. We chopped the pot, her having A-7o calling p/f raise and 2 cold on the flop with no hand and no draw. Can't fault her for staying, though, b/c her money in the pot were part of the reason I stayed. Based on the outcome, again, 4 outs was an incorrect call and 5 outs correct. UTG had K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and good player KQo.
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  #8  
Old 11-27-2007, 01:09 PM
Bicycles_Biatch Bicycles_Biatch is offline
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Default Re: Huge pot with heavy flop action

I don't think a fold or a call can really be considered a leak in your game.

Congrats for making a "last orbit" decision and chopping a big one. I like to hear that.
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